Flying spot scanner mark 2 the Resurrection

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Flying spot scanner mark 2 the Resurrection

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:41 pm

Some time back i recased my First Flying spot scanner to covert and try a sensor head amp behind the Nipkow .
Didn't have much luck from my tests think i got the optics wrong so i have Resurrected it from the shed for another look to turn it back to a Flying spot scanner as i think i can improve my results......
I have not tried the Led lens disk in anger in this way and with a new simpler lens system also changed i should have better light levels over the standard hole Nipkow .
Since its again small i am again trying my torch Luxeon ( would like a laser if i can find one again ) as the light see if the above changes can push the doing it small limits.
Attachments
A.JPG
I am again using my Luxeon Torch light deconstructed this time
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AA.JPG
Going to try the Clear leds lens disk Nipkow i made a while back
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AAA.JPG
Checking speed control circuits
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AAAA.JPG
New lens
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:05 pm

I am having trouble with using the torch luxeon when using the same power supply as the motor control circuit at full brightness of the torch it cause the speed to drop ...i did swap the motor so that could and sounds like it that will teach me ! :x

I was going to just power the light with a battery as a simple fix the motors glued in bit of work to swap the old one back .

Any case i found a kids toy light thing it projects a spider man tiny slide on a wall... red like a laser it held candy and i suppose meant to be chucked away when they got bored with it i was thinking they were using a defocused laser init so i looked but it looks like a clear LED but the surface area of the led part much larger than a normal led it looks like its a cross between a laser and a luxeon ...what i like about it theres less stray light wasted than my torch luxeon does ...trying it out it also seems better ///
i have tried a red laser on my head amp solar cells and i know that works still so i will give this a go.

When i did the laser test i found some thing interesting as i am using solar cells on the amp and testing you can hear one cell be better than the other more and less sensitive ...

Another little test i did with the solar cell head amp was adjusting it down so its less sensitive and listening to the sun out the house front window now i moved it to where the fly screen was as you move it up and down you can hear the fly screen matrix in the way as if you were moving your fingers up and down it touching it not sure how useful this is more than likely not but a very neat effect .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby aussie_bloke » Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:45 am

Your flying spot scanner is looking excellent, love your ingenuity in how you mount all of the circuits and parts inside a suitcase, it looks so cool! Anyhow best of luck with the project, hope you get it working good, will follow your progress reports on it.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:33 pm

aussie_bloke wrote:Your flying spot scanner is looking excellent, love your ingenuity in how you mount all of the circuits and parts inside a suitcase, it looks so cool! Anyhow best of luck with the project, hope you get it working good, will follow your progress reports on it.



Thanks Troy i had it in the original as you know open looked good but not easy to put away all the time with out moving something on it, so always needed readjusting ....i needed to rehouse it so thats it for this one ,as with you i use what i have handy and i have to do it small ,that was a multi tool bit case for a tiny drill .

Have not had much time this week to play with it i have my Sister down from Dapto of a few days ...

I will try it with the head amp next week when i have more time.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:06 pm

Today i worked on mounting the new light to try .
I never got around to showing it so heres the deconstruction reconstruction...i took the lens out in the end ,due to i had to mount the LED closer it knocked the focal point out which meant i had to have it mounted to far back it spread the light at closer distance...ended up working better without it and if i wanted to shut the case without taking it off every time i had to put it away

Work some more onit tomorrow .
Attachments
1.JPG
Heres the toy light go spiderman !
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2.JPG
The insides and i have cut the thing in half at this stage...... now i know whats inside it .
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3.JPG
a closer look at the led i have not come across one like this before
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4.JPG
gives a nice amount of light for 2.5 volts
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5.JPG
doing tests now spider man toy projection torch is now a nbtv flying spot scanner almost.
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6.JPG
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:44 pm

Working on seeing how the raster gos today .
Its not to bad in room light much better of cause in the dark also i can get a much larger raster .
The Light is now hooked in i am pretty happy with it for one Led .
work progressing ...
Attachments
7.JPG
my sons hand he wanted to get in on the act today
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8.JPG
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9.JPG
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:31 pm

I had time today for a play with this and see if i could get another step further with it .
I had a clean noise free testing today and i could make out stuff i was televising but didn't test my speed control and i am getting some speed swinging of the nipkow to say the least...didn't seem so bad viewing live.

I did a fair few tests recordings but playing back either swing no sync lock or seem steady just out of sync .

I had it in afternoon room light which i have noticed before the IR does seem to be effected i suppose the sun does give of a nice amount of IR along with every other range of light.

So pretty crappy recording results least live looked better ...l will see if i can show something next time .
Attachments
syncspeedswing.gif
speed control swing
syncspeedswing.gif (2.02 MiB) Viewed 7775 times
P1050603.JPG
just the set up
P1050603.JPG (194.88 KiB) Viewed 7775 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:03 pm

Well i looked into my problem yesterday ,I had changed the motor for this project from the last and the encoder disk .
So i will be looking into just getting the speed control working again .
Our printer died a while back and have been given another but its a HP !( not my choice! ) but different model so i hope it for some reason uses different ink this time.... it would be nice to just use the printed out encoder ..cutting out the slots make the sync pulse vary so raster lines slightly different size so wavy looking .

So i am going to have to work a little harder on this one and go back a few steps .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby gary » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:38 pm

Grrrr... ;-) Just byte (pun intended) the bullet - work an hours overtime and buy this (or something like it):

http://www.harveynorman.com.au/brother- ... pQodeTAAHQ

You will never regret it. After all it's the cost of 2 replacement ink cartridges (and who the hell needs colour anyway?) ;-).

BTW I am now in possession of the same printer as your broken one and want to do some experiments on it (seeing is believing) - alas I have become bogged down in house/property projects - darn!
Perfecting an NBTV system is like trying to slam a revolving door...
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Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:42 pm

Hi Gary

gary wrote:Grrrr... ;-) Just byte (pun intended) the bullet - work an hours overtime and buy this (or something like it):

http://www.harveynorman.com.au/brother- ... pQodeTAAHQ


Well i printed out some encoder disks today to test and did the camera and tv remote IR test as before same problem these HP's are all the same by the looks of it ...

Thats nice cheap laser printer ! yes i give up on the ink ones...that price i will look into it .

You will never regret it. After all it's the cost of 2 replacement ink cartridges (and who the hell needs colour anyway?) ;-).


We just need it for invoicing so B/w yes is fine .i didnt buy this latest one the family have a mind of there own so think beyond NBTV uses(how dare they) !
the last one broke and they just went out and got another before i knew about it.

BTW I am now in possession of the same printer as your broken one and want to do some experiments on it (seeing is believing) - alas I have become bogged down in house/property projects - darn!


Well the test i did today was just a repeat of the many of the past and a warning to others Hp is no good for encoder print outs no idea still if other brands are different so i am keen on that laser printer !

Let me how you go when you have time again .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby gary » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:08 pm

Yes but not all HPs exhibit that problem - see my previous posts on the subject - but for us laser printers have a great advantage in precision, and they also allow us to make PCBs - so viva laser printers.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:46 pm

gary wrote:Yes but not all HPs exhibit that problem - see my previous posts on the subject - but for us laser printers have a great advantage in precision, and they also allow us to make PCBs - so viva laser printers.


Well that would be right ! i get 2 duds....

BTW Gary do they need a powder replacement thingy i recall seeing that stuff in an old laser printer i scrapped a while ago....
one good thing it might have a polygon mirror for NBTV use when it dies to reuse .

I know we talked about it some time back but the level of the led that of its brightness ...i don't think i tried knocking it back ....i can see with normal levels when it reflects back its the same white or black so no way the light trany is going to see any different to our eyes or what i can see on the camera screen.

I would like to see the test of a full print out apart from my cut out stuck on a reflective disk one that works .I would expect the ir led is at its normal light level and drops off on the black and reflected on the white or is it the other way around for IR light ?

Thinking out aloud here so pay no attention to my attention deficit disorder ....
:roll:

A mechanical clock is a little messy for timing things or mine are .

Using the encoder for sync pulse i wonder if you could perhaps do it with more cleaner electronic control have just one reflective area encoder or hole next to where line 32 ends and use that as a reset pulse which controls the reset of a counter which has its own electronic clock timer it would be a matter of adjusting the counters clock speed for it to show 32 pulses ? no expert of timers counters apart from a few clock frequency counter projects over the years any one think it might be worth a shot .
I know the 32 line encoder for motor speed would still have to be there as it would only work for sync line timing if the speed control worked .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby gary » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:44 pm

Harry, the easiest thing for you to do is take the print outs you have up to your newsagent or print shop and get a couple of photocopies made - should only cost a few cents.

With regard to the number of pulses per revolution, in principle any number will work providing the 2 sources match - however the more pulses per revolution you have the more accurate it will be.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:28 pm

gary wrote:Harry, the easiest thing for you to do is take the print outs you have up to your newsagent or print shop and get a couple of photocopies made - should only cost a few cents.


Yes thats a good idea but i am still keeping my eye out on that 40 dollar printer either way my next IR encoder will be either one of those ideas .

With regard to the number of pulses per revolution, in principle any number will work providing the 2 sources match - however the more pulses per revolution you have the more accurate it will be.


I recall last time just replacing the sync from the encoder monostable just using the crystal clock pulses instead to see whta happens....the picture was half size and rolled side ways.
So i was thinking just on the sync mixing part of the circuit if you had a reset pulse which happened at the end line 32 as whats used now on the encoder and using a free running clock just using that pulse a free running clock should match each line same way as the mechanical one ...perhaps but i could be wrong :wink:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby gary » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:03 pm

As long as both pulse trains are identical in frequency there is no *technical* reason you shouldn't be able to achieve speed lock. If you had a half size picture it implies one or other of the pulse trains was twice the speed of the other (it is always possible to lock at harmonic intervals).

If you have a different number of pulses between the two pulse trains then lock is unlikely to be achieved.

If you had a free running clock at EXACTLY 400 Hz, and your disc was running at EXACTLY 750 RPM and you used a single frame pulse from the disc to reset the free running clock then yes, the free running clock pulses would be the same as that created from an encoder on the disc.

However the two *EXACTLY*'s are somewhat difficult to achieve methinks.

If on the other hand you generated a single pulse, 1 out of 32, from the free running clock and used THAT to phase lock with the disc frame pulse (which is what a single pulse from the 32nd line of the disc is) then you might be in business - I am just not sure that one pulse per revolution is enough to overcome windage, temp changes etc. But from a purely theoretical point of view it could.
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