As Good As It Got: 30-line BBC Studio, Portland Place, 1934.

[chris_vk3aml]

As an initial posting to indicate how far the 30-line system progressed after August 1932, when the BBC took over from Long Acre as a program source for their NBTV service, I'm putting up this series of postings.

Complete circuit diagrams from this phase of the BBC 30-line service appear not to have survived, but much can be inferred from Birkinshaw's technical descriptions. The BBC's Radio Engineering Department could only locate a block diagram of the transmission chain, drawn by the Baird Company in 1933, which I will post subsequent to this initial contribution.

Further material from the BBC 30-line TV program producer Eustace Robb will be posted as I get time to do so. The material broadcast from this studio undoubtedly had considerable entertainment value. Among the material yet to be posted is the script of a typical 1935 musical review written for broadcast from this studio, "Skyline", which included close-ups, singing, dancing, fades, and dissolves to a caption scanner which can be seen on the lower left of two photographs of the "control room" reproduced below.

The "aperture distortion" graph published with Birkinshaw's text has been reproduced in large scale for clarity of interpretation. It indicates that the boost required rose to about 5 dB at the video cutoff frequency of 13,125 Hz - slightly less than the 6.5 dB calculated by L E Q Walker which was posted elsewhere on this forum.

The "lighting" effects produced by placing four separate photocell units at different points in the flying-spot studio, fed through a video mixer panel controlled by D R Campbell, gave this studio a flexibility of artistic control unrivalled elsewhere in NBTV practice.

The interpretation of the various items of equipment in the control room photos can be made by referring to the plan diagram of the room in the earlier part of Birkinshaw's text.

This is the first installment of textual material only - more coming!

All the best,

Chris Long VK3AML.

[chris_vk3aml]

And now for some articles on the usage of the Portland Place 30-line studio by Eustace Robb, the first television program director in the BBC (30-line period, 1932-35).

In Robb's article, and in the surviving script of the variety program "Skyline" following, it should be obvious that the medium was already evolving from one of mere technical novelty into an entertainment of increasing sophistication. "Skyline" went to air on 3 June 1935, only a few months prior to the closure of the 30-line service and the commencement of preparations for the 405 line "high definition" service at the Alexandra Palace.

The "London Evening News" of 22 August 1932 referred to these BBC transmissions as being "distinct from those of an experimental character [from Baird's studios at Long Acre, and] will be the first entertainment [TV] broadcasts in the British Isles...". The BBC's 1933 "Yearbook" went further, describing them as "one step beyond the experimental stage".

In conjunction with the reading of these articles, I would encourage members of this forum to obtain Tony Bridgewater's excellent and lavishly illustrated publication "Just A Few Lines", (British Vintage Wireless Society, 1992, 20 pps) for an 'insider's view' of these 30-line transmissions.

The transmissions provide a NBTV quality benchmark to which we can only aspire, three quarters of a century later.

Please enjoy the content and feel free to comment on the contents...

All the best,

Chris Long VK3AML.

[DrZarkov]

This is really very interesting! After all our technical work it would be a good idea to recreate a hole TV programme from one evening and put it on a new club-CD. That would be nice "feed" for a televisor.

Who of us can sing?

[johnmarshmanagain]

Hi All

Zarkov sets us a challenge there which has all kinds of aspects to it. But the first questions (at least for me as a newbie) are :

- Do folks want the material as in audio as 30-line or 32-line ? or as 625 which could be put through an Aurora and rendered into 30/32 line audio as and when required, but otherwise seen on a conventional telly....
- Is there any free software out there so that 30/32 line audio can be downloaded into a PC and viewed as though it were NBTV ?
- What still and moving images representative of NBTV already exist which could be compiled into a sequence with some degree of entertainment value ?
- I have seen on the web the 1967 reproduction of the play TMWTFIHM... now has anyone got this in a 30/32 line form already, or in a 625 form ?
- If someone were to assemble a list of entertaining snippets of programming in 625 form, could a small number of folks volunteer each to record such a snippet which could all then be compiled up by an "editor" who could put the caption cards into the sequence and then and distribute to all interested parties.... for example I know a singing and dancing student round here who could be persuaded to dance for a few quid !

Would be a fun project - expect Panrock will have some contribution on this one, espesh in view of existing material.

Pip pip JM

[chris_vk3aml]

I must admit - with the amount of programming creativity shown by Robb, it would be nice if some theatrical people could be made to take an interest in recording a CD, specifically designed for the limitations of 30 or 32 lines!

I have a friend - Peter Milley - who runs a 1920s-style dance orchestra (10 members) playing original orchestrations from that era. The trouble is that they're all professionals, expecting to earn no less than $200 a night (rehearsals excluded). $2,000 just for the band is more than I could afford - and then there's the complication of submitting them all to 30-line theatrical makeup and managing the camera in the necessary extreme-close-up technique.

Still, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that some of you with BBC contacts might be able to get the BBC to "take you under their wing" to make such a program, provide the finance for it, and then produce a "making of" documentary for their own historical and broadcasting purposes! The political reality, however, is that some of the best British docos are being made by the guys at "Channel 4" which had no historical association with 30-line.

It does seem a pity to me that we have the technology, but that even our best NBTV CDs are of technical conventions. What about a bit of music, a bit of skirt and a bit of leg? This dirty old man WOULD be appreciative!

Just a thought ... maybe my imagination (and libido) have the better of me!!

Good luck!

Chris Long VK3AML.

[Viewmaster]

Yes, I have always lamented on the fact that wonderful pieces of equipment we see running at Loughboro' etc just have a static test card running on them.
Never any music and dancing, Laurel and Hardy etc.
I certainly would buy an all singing, all dancing CD.
Bring on the gilrls!
Alber.

[johnmarshmanagain]

Quite agree, but think I've taken this one "off topic", so our discussion should maybe pick up on the older topic "Playing original content on our televisors?".
Meantime, I much appreciate reading the articles posted above - great insight, and saves me having to buy the expensive original magazines !.... which I guess is the point about content one can play on an nbtv - no reason it shouldn't be cheap for members to enjoy.....after all it's only for fun. Pip pip JM

[Viewmaster]

Quite agree, but think I've taken this one "off topic", so our discussion should maybe pick up on the older topic "Playing original content on our televisors?".

John, as a newcomer to this NBTV forum, you will find, that unlike the wireless forum that I see you are also on, that the moderators here allow us a good deal of freedom to wander off topic at times (many times!)....
....they may frown at it but they are really three splendid fellows.
Albert.

[Steve Anderson]

...that unlike the wireless forum that I see you are also on, that the moderators here allow us a good deal of freedom to wander off topic at times (many times!)....
....they may frown at it but they are really three splendid fellows.
Albert.

Well, I hope I am speaking for the other two guys, but thank you for that vote of confidence Albert. Sometimes digression and wandering off-topic is no bad thing. It's a bit like discovering a new city...now what's down this lane.....OK, sometimes you'll be enthralled, sometimes bored. Forest Gump, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get".

Here is no different, as long as there is some pertinance to NBTV then all is on. I would draw the line if a discussion broke out about the merits of JBL verses Celestion loudspeakers although I do have an interest in the topic, that's the preserve of another board.

As for wandering off-topic, I'm probably one of the worst at 'hijacking' a thread!....and this could be a prime example of that! So kick back and enjoy....

Steve A.

[Phil Hunter]

Chris

I have just read your superb article - thank you for taking the time to publish it - It has filled in several missing holes an my television magazine collection.

As regards to producing NBTVA material other I have posted discussion threads on this subject before - to no aparrent interest - however I will support any inititive that will bring in "made for 32/30 line material"

Regards

Phil Hunter

[chris_vk3aml]

Thanks for the nice compliment, Phil,

But the articles are in no way "mine"! D C Birkinshaw, Tony Bridgwater, Des R Campbell, the pioneer BBC 30-line TV engineers and the journalists at "Television" magazine (published monthly in London from March 1928) are the originators of all of that.

I have little time for NBTV on this forum at the moment. I'm juggling a course in which I'm in the final months of earning a teaching certificate in the Media Studies area, and concurrently am building an NBTV combined camera-monitor display device for the Australian Centre for the Moving Image (ACMI) here in Melbourne, Australia.

Doesn't leave much more free time and it'll be that way until 16 December when my course finishes. So I'll see and hear more of you chaps in 2009, I hope. If you want to catch me on Skype - audio or webcam - I am listed there under "Chris_Long".

I have more for this 1934 account ready to go now (mostly a block diagram of the Portland Place video/audio amp and aperture correction arrangements), but no time to post it!

Thanks again,

Chris (and Prue) Long, QTH-R on qrz.com --- VK3AML, Melbourne, Australia.

[Panrock]

I must admit - with the amount of programming creativity shown by Robb, it would be nice if some theatrical people could be made to take an interest in recording a CD, specifically designed for the limitations of 30 or 32 lines!

Some will already be aware that the plans of the British Heritage Television Group (BHTG) include the future ability to generate programme content. You may remember the 2006 production of TV70 at Alexandra Palace. In that instance this was done in conjunction with the Test Card Circle. I'm sure when and if we manage to get 405-lines up and running on the air again, we would look kindly on a '30-line evening'. Though we couldn't put it out on Medium Wave ! I personally am involved with a small local amateur theatrical group and you can rest assured I am keeping on their right side - they produce just the sort of drama that was typical of pre-war television and their help could be very useful in future!

Yes, I have always lamented on the fact that wonderful pieces of equipment we see running at Loughboro' etc just have a static test card running on them.
Never any music and dancing, Laurel and Hardy etc.

Well there's been Sooty, admittedly not with Sweep, but Sooty 'moving' (rotating on a turntable). This was used for the very first demonstration of NBTVA colour many years ago. Motion was used because it provided extra information to the eye and brain to integrate and made up for othewrwise rather scrappy picture quality. And next time, Albert, you are welcome to provide some motion by waving at my camera!

...that unlike the wireless forum that I see you are also on, that the moderators here allow us a good deal of freedom to wander off topic at times (many times!)....they may frown at it but they are really three splendid fellows.
Albert.

On the BHTG forum which I moderate, I'm not quite such a splendid fellow. I do try to be gentle but I also believe in keeping threads firmly on topic. My excuse is that this makes information easier to find when searching the threads later...

Steve_O

[chris_vk3aml]

Why on earth NOT put the signal out on medium wave? We often have, on 160 metres - 1855 KHz - and by definition that is medium wave, not hf. Use vestigial sideband, and NBTV is not significantly broader than an amplitude modulated voice transmitter with its two sidebands.... and there are LOTS of a.m. signals on 160 metres in this country.

I'm a little surprised that hams in the United Kingdom are apparently so restricted in that respect. I don't like to say this too loudly, but has anyone noticed how UNpopulated some ham bands have become lately, with the worldwide attrition of amateur numbers? Why not use the bandspace at some time when usage is low - nobody is likely to object, within officialdom or out of it! At least, that's our experience in Australia.

I'm sure that Ted Hardy G3GMZ could give a few pointers - though simultaneous sound may be difficult. The "entertainment" aspect may be more of a sticking point, but in this country the conveyance of music was struck off the ham radio statutes as an offence around the year 2000. Here, and in New Zealand music is technically legal, but for short tests only.

But why be excessively conservative with this - really!

Chris Long, station VK3AML, Melbourne, Australia.

[Steve Anderson]

I don't like to say this too loudly, but has anyone noticed how UNpopulated some ham bands have become lately, with the worldwide attrition of amateur numbers? Chris Long, station VK3AML, Melbourne, Australia.

I had the pleasure of working with an ex-president/chairperson of the RSGB some six years ago in Singapore, however I'm at a loss as to his name (it was Tony Something). At the time we were both working for NTL. He candidly said that it's so easy (and cheap) to pick up the phone and instantly talk to someone on the other side of the planet....why bother with Amateur Radio? That was his main reason for handing over the reigns to someone else.

The Internet has of course eroded Amateur Radios' attraction even more with the likes of Skype where no expensive hardware is needed (transceivers and the like) and the software is free and its reliability is almost guaranteed along with close-on Hi-Fi quality. Though not in stereo (yet).

It's sad, and a loss to all those that tinkered in their 'shacks' for so many years.

Steve A.

P.S. I've just done some 'Googling' on Amateur Transceivers, and I have to admit that all seem to be very versatile in modes/bands etc., but they're in the 1000's of dollars region! That's a lot of phone calls! One can make your own, but why bother? Don't get me wrong, I'm very much in favour of Amateur Radio, it's just to me the incentive has vapourized.

In my case I can't get a license anyway as I'm not a Thai national.

[Phil Hunter]

This has become a fantastically diverse discussion, and is a credit to the versitility of the forum and just shows the diversity of our interests away from "core NTBVA interests"
A common source of transmitted " programs suitable for NBTVA " would to my mind be of great interest and add a missing "dimension" there would be great satisfaction in being able to recieve (and enjoy) a structured program via our respective viewing systems - can the signal be sent via the internet ?

Although along way off and only of benefit to people able to attend the convention I will make available my second decoder via a dvd and video, available to anyone who wants to try their equipment with someting other than club CD's

Rgaards Phil