PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

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PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:46 pm

I started to tinker with the PhonoVision video recorder idea again to try out some things i didn't last time , i no longer have to work out if its possible or how to do it .
Just knocking together a small version so its more portable i originally wanted to make it some thing like this first time around but only partly knew the basic idea to it all the hard work was on version 2
I am using 2 Hard drive motors for their bearings and voice coil bearing for smooth movements in directions needed .
Using 2 geared motors for the embossing lathe an platter movement .
I never did a try stereo video audio recording might work...i think from memory i tried horizontal one channel and 2 channels same time recordings or more vertical any case the video part has to be mastered again before i can even think of that .
Here below knocking it together the start.
Attachments
P1070463.JPG
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P1070467.JPG
P1070457.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:02 pm

Today i mounted every thing apart from the tone arm this should be left till testing length weight of the arm and angle better left moveable till then !.
Just also today working out panel and power supply for the 2 geared motors ..i just need some speed control one direction for the platter motor and for the lathe embossing arm speed control and forward and reverse latter for reset .
The biggest problem i had to work out on version 1 and 2 and was finally worked out on version 2 was the lathe arm needs to move freely up and down only and as stable as possible that's the reason i am using that voice coil bearings with out this the embossing arm digs in and out if the dvd or cd if it is not 100% flat or the platter is wobbling a bit causing a varying the recording speed ,only want the platter to vary in height as it rotates i want no movement left or right no play at all .and that's the biggest tip to being able to record this way .
I am again going to use ceramic cartridges not that i didn't try to get the magnetic type but looks like they sent me ceramic again :roll:
Once i power the motors up i can test how embossing the tracks go .
Before i was more interested keeping to standard record speeds but found it really didn't matter that much for a result ..constant speed is more what you want .
I should be able to repeat the 32 line recordings if any thing and hopefully try some stereo once i know its working .
Attachments
P1070468.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Andrew Davie » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:15 am

Have to admit I really love the crazy stuff you make and how you re-use stuff.
It would make a GREAT YouTube series just watching you tinker and see the results you get.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Dec 05, 2020 10:13 am

Andrew Davie wrote:Have to admit I really love the crazy stuff you make and how you re-use stuff.
It would make a GREAT YouTube series just watching you tinker and see the results you get.


Hi Andrew Crazy bugger i am indeed :wink:

Yes i am hope less making stuff from scratch i only have a Dremel a drill and grinder and hand tools need a screw driver here and there 8) fun getting some thing working from the junk laying around .

I didn't want to bore any one with a long how i did it video ,i will show what expected if some one want's to make some thing similar ,the way to do it can be done differently so long as the movements are fine enough .

As you see the lathe arm is not a swinging type this time makes it look neater the other away as you can hide the mechanism under the case just have a hole for the bearing lathe arm ...but reading up a while back this is a better way to do it most people who have record lathes use this more ugly idea .

I will work a bit more on they pickup this time last time i just used an amplifier no idea what its bandwidth it could do this time i rather know.

Work a bit more on it tomorrow have to go to a birthday bash today but does not stop me thinking about the steps ...was tossing up making my own 100 watt amplifier to drive the ceramic cartridge but i have one handy and just makes it more complex reason i wanted magnetic this time on the lathe you can drive that with the out put of a lap top big difference i am sure they sent ceramic they look the same to me and test as ceramic .
Attachments
P1070472.JPG
P1070477.JPG
P1070474.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:06 pm

Got the motor control for the embossing lathe finished works as wanted just have to finish off the platter speed control testing i would guess its going at 33 rpm a touch slower than wanted but have recorded NBTV at this speed before ,i know around or close to 78 rpm is better might mean a larger pulley wheel here in time .
i will mount the power supply board under the case below the lathe neaten that up .
Attachments
P1070479.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:37 pm

Below test run of the geared motors


How i am finding a place for the boards below ; )
P1070487.JPG


Next i have mounted a larger Transformer tossing up the idea will i or not bother making a 100 watt amplifier for the lathe ceramic cartridge ,it came down to did i have a transformer for it and i do .

I have not made one before here it comes down to what's simple what works what do i have handy ...not sure i would need the 4700uf out put cap since the ceramic cartridge is in use ...i also not not seen resistors below 1 ohm ! any one looking over it see a problem let me know .
amp-2.png
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P1070491.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Steve Anderson » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:39 pm

The larger distributors will have low-ohm resistors, generally power versions and wire-wound of 2W or more (up to 100W). In that circuit they're for current equalising between the output pairs as well as thermal stability. It must be a very old circuit as most would use MOSFETs today which are generally more rugged in this sort of application. They also don't suffer from 'thermal run-away'

The 0.33 Ohm resistors can be made of 3x1-ohm in parallel. Below 1-Ohm they often noted by the value being R33 for a 0.33 Ohm version, instead of 100R for a 100 Ohm version (or simply 100, no decimal point, no multiplier prefix/suffix), in a similar manner for a 4.7 Ohm, 4R7, the 'R' taking the place of the decimal point which can often get lost when printing, scanning and/or photocopying...same idea as 'k', 4k7, not 4.7k, or 1M5 instead of 1.5M. You'll notice I do that in all my circuits...

Applies too for capacitors and inductors, 4n7 not 4.7n, 6u8 not 6.8u(Henry).

The 2N3055s are only rated to 60V, the transformer 75V RMS will produce over 100V after the bridge rectifier, even without allowing for transformer regulation. So I suggest you scrap that circuit, it'll only cause grief!

It really annoys me (I can think of a better expression) to see so much utter rubbish published...

Steve A.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:46 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:The larger distributors will have low-ohm resistors, generally power versions and wire-wound of 2W or more (up to 100W). In that circuit they're for current equalising between the output pairs as well as thermal stability. It must be a very old circuit as most would use MOSFETs today which are generally more rugged in this sort of application. They also don't suffer from 'thermal run-away'


I was trying to find some thing simple that seemed to be around for a while ,i am not to bothered that its old more it will work ..i put it here to run it by every one as i haven't made one before i am glad you looked Steve your advice is always good .
Yes i recall it was mentioned these were 2 Watt your right there .

The 0.33 Ohm resistors can be made of 3x1-ohm in parallel. Below 1-Ohm they often noted by the value being R33 for a 0.33 Ohm version, instead of 100R for a 100 Ohm version (or simply 100, no decimal point, no multiplier prefix/suffix), in a similar manner for a 4.7 Ohm, 4R7, the 'R' taking the place of the decimal point which can often get lost when printing...same idea as 'k', 4k7, not 4.7k, or 1M5 instead of 1.5M. You'll notice I do that in all my circuits...


Never come across a circuit needing less than an ohm in it made me think this part must be fussy !

Applies too for capacitors and inductors, 4n7 not 4.7n, 6u8 not 6.8u(Henry).


Yes it can catch you out well noted

The 2N3055s are only rated to 60V, the transformer 75V RMS will produce over 100V after the bridge rectifier, even without allowing for transformer regulation. So I suggest you scrap that circuit, it'll only cause grief!


BTW can the 400v deflection transistors used on the CRT's work just as well here ?

It really annoys me (I can think of a better expression) to see so much utter rubbish published...

Steve A.


On this one there are various versions of this circuit so i thought it was a goer but seems not ..i will keep looking any suggestions do post i will see if its possible to construct ...the power supply should be no problem so half way there ..
I would like Stereo in time for this project ..in the mean time i will have another look whats out there !
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Steve Anderson » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:59 pm

Start with your requirements...how much voltage, how much current, is the load resistive, inductive or capacitive? Or a combination of all three...loudspeakers are a good example, especially with cross-over networks within. In this case probably mostly capacitive which at higher frequencies will require perhaps quite a bit of current...though not excessive.

Stability is also a factor, the load capacitance can affect feedback networks to varying degrees. Driving high-capacitance load is not easy, but can be done.

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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Dec 11, 2020 7:39 am

Steve Anderson wrote:Start with your requirements...how much voltage, how much current, is the load resistive, inductive or capacitive? Or a combination of all three...loudspeakers are a good example, especially with cross-over networks within. In this case probably mostly capacitive which at higher frequencies will require perhaps quite a bit of current...though not excessive.

Stability is also a factor, the load capacitance can affect feedback networks to varying degrees. Driving high-capacitance load is not easy, but can be done.

Steve A.


Well Steve i have a working 100 watt amplifier so i know the percentage 70 on the display to run a ceramic cartridge in reverse ...so its not using its full 100 watts to drive it .
as below the idea in reverse

(A more accurate and less-misleading description is a piezoelectric or crystal cartridge/pickup. Much like early phonographs, the mechanism to obtain an electric signal from the record grooves is entirely mechanical in nature. As the title implies, it relies on the piezoelectric effect. You experience it on a day-today-basis through common quartz clocks. When an electric current is applied to a crystal, typically quartz, the crystal structure will deform at its natural frequency. This constant and consistent vibration is used to regulate the clock mechanism.

Piezoelectric pickups work the same way, but in reverse. The stylus is attached to a germanium crystal or ceramic rod (hence the name). The grooves of the record move the stylus which bends the crystal which generates an electrical signal.
)

No i don't need it for driving a speaker coil at all so i would say the cartridge is more like a driving capacitive load ? Yes not easy at all reason every one these days use a magnetic cartridge they make them selfs large out of speakers or a very pricy vintage cartridge set up .on my idea embossing reusing a playback cartridge ,magnetic they are costly at 50 dollars up where as here 2 to 5 dollars a ceramic cartridge .. what i know its possible as its been done using the amplifier i have now ,what i haven't done is make an amplifier for the hell of it and it puts it all in one place for it to be more portable .
To save costs i do have a lot of parts laying around so its more find workable transistor circuit find transistors to match .
Power supply transformer is from some old stereo amplifier scrapped in the past voltages are dual 22.5 0 22.5 ,18,10 ,and very low voltage must of been for panel lights i would think the transformer is 5 watts size at least ...dual supply possible here .
I would like it a transistor circuit mosfet of bipolar Steve
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:35 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:58 am

BTW i came across this little record lathe if any thing the mechanics are already done if your not great at the mechanical side ,the head could be changed for experiments .


youtu.be/NtGDBMUAcGM
https://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today ... -made-easy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgpSz85 ... _rel_pause
Attachments
ez-record-maker_3 (1).jpg
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:22 pm

https://www.tubecad.com/2007/06/blog0111.htm
I happen to have a few irfp250's the amp in circuits looks ok i would think you would have double the Mosfets for a higher wattage any case putting out there for wiser eye's than mine.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:21 pm

Testing the ceramic phono cartridge on my 100 watt amplifier i can just hear it a 50% volume as i recall you need about high 60s to 70% volume on the cartridge for a good recording as demonstrated .



Well the lathe cartridge works and out of interest i tried a few other things that might vibrate just as an experiment ...

Perhaps the first time a solar cell has been used as a speaker !



I also tried an old WW2 crystal rated at a few MHZ it worked to but i could only hear it close to my hear

P1070502.JPG


Trying a 40khz ultra sonic transducer also produced sound i could hear



The point of all this was if a phono cartridge was made to any on the other ideas pretty workable at different levels just again you need a hell of an amplifier to start with :wink:
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P1070493_x264.mp4
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby smeezekitty » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:02 am

What impedance is the cartridge though? If you're using an amplifier with an 8 ohm speaker output for 1kOhm load for example, you won't get good results at all. If the amplifier impedance matches the cartridge, I bet you'll need far less than 100 watts - because if there is a mismatch, you're not actually delivering ~70W into it. Probably less than 10.
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Re: PhonoVision Mechanical video recorder Version 3

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:28 am

smeezekitty wrote:What impedance is the cartridge though? If you're using an amplifier with an 8 ohm speaker output for 1kOhm load for example, you won't get good results at all. If the amplifier impedance matches the cartridge, I bet you'll need far less than 100 watts - because if there is a mismatch, you're not actually delivering ~70W into it. Probably less than 10.



looking it up ceramic cartridges want at least 1 megohm input impedance.
I didn't think it mattered at audio frequencies as trying here but i will give it a go ..below might work in reverse
I know the wattage needed for record lathes as this was the result printed on records at the time if they used a ceramic cartridge to cut the record so seemed pretty similar to my last results but i am no expert i would be very happy if less is needed so give it a go for sure !
Update trying the below just made it worse ...i also tried giving it a 8 ohm load and results were same as if i wasn't using that load resistor which is understandable 1 meg is like a flea on your back to this ! ,suppose the reason you need some grunt to drive these backwards
A magnetic cartridge would be very easy to drive right from the weak head phone jack but a bit to costly for an experiment like this
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Ceramic impedance matching.jpg
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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