The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:17 pm

I am currently using a 7404 3,2768MHZ crystal oscillator for the circuit ,i am going order a LTC1799 to try a slight modification .
The LTC1799 - 1kHz to 33MHz oscillator has the stability of a crystal oscillator with the versatility of a variable oscillator with little drift .
Leaving the circuit with the original crystal oscillator for the frame rate side of it ,the monitor switches in 6hz 12.5hz 25hz 50hz and 100hz ,with a modification on the line side having its own crystal oscillator the LCT1799 and its own first 74hc4040 ic the line rate could be any early television standard or non standard using a course and fine multi turn precision potentiometers ...very simple circuit but the chip does come in the small SOT23-5 package
All fine in theory depends also on if i can sync this beast //i will just plod with a little bit of work at a time and test so on .
The resistors are w103 and 105 trimmers code so i think 1M and 10k

youtu.be/PNpb3vWbGRc
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby smeezekitty » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:45 pm

Anything new happening?
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:22 pm

smeezekitty wrote:Anything new happening?


Sorry i got side tracked with the computer system's converter .this took me to being also interested in looking into this side of creating a higher line rate signal with a PC ...i didn't post it up but after working out the lap top was a bit less than what is needed ,i looked into getting a old desk top to work this out as i know the graphics card that will do the line and frame rates via modeline program.
Out of chance i found at the local tip reuse shop a pentium 4 with a vga and composite video card it will out put 625 line so in a way it is a systems converter for either sstv or NBTV to 625 line not some thing i was thinking about at the time but do it it can .I still want the correct graphics card but this is a cheapy start ok for 10 dollar PC.
Now as far this project some times i stop and have think about the different options or ideas and make so if it doesn't work out i have not stuffed the original idea up .
I was also waiting for the ltc1799 to turn up which it just did on Friday and had my first go at soldering a micro ic ..it seems to have worked checking with a conductivity test to the larger socket all looks good there no solder bridging .
Main problems i found were holding the ic in place to solder in the first place i used some thin copper wire to hold it in place then i could solder which really was very touchy but doable .
I will hook up the circuit tomorrow and see if it works . I plan to hook the output of the 1799 ic oscillator up to Steve Anderson's DAC circuit ic201 4040 pin 10 leave the frame rate as is via the crystal oscillator circuit i can then on the line rate side just switch in either the tuneable ltc1799 or the crystals 4040 frequency dividing outputs as in the schematic ...well that's the plan . :roll:
In this way i am not stuffing up what works just adding on an idea and see how well or bad it works and can be removed with out a problem ,if it works out it means i can change the line rate to what i want to any vintage standard .
I have also been thinking of the original circuit which is still handy when used with the PMT camera which both use the same circuits here again thanks to Steve ...
if i just use either one of their 3.2mhz crystal oscillators and just use the one clock to feed both monitor and PMT camera they will both be in line and frame lock flip of a switch ..
I fired the monitor up yesterday still works good sign ! and did a little work on feeding some signal outputs to the back plugs.
If the ltc1799 works out i have Precision Potentiometer to work with it .
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:13 pm

I finished the ltc1799 oscillator and got it going seems to work testing at 30khz and 300khz bit high for my little scope signal wise ...i will hook it up to the monitor and see if it works here next .
So far so good :wink:
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:46 pm

I gave it a test run connected to the monitor ...at first i couldn't get it to work i had to ac couple the circuit to the DAC sawtooth circuit the 4040 ic then i had a raster i could adjust.
I don't think the oscillator is not giving a top frequency range with the pots i am using only getting into the high 3 mhz range that i can see with my meter might be over its range which i forgot about and misreading some thing else i will check when i have more time .
Also its shifting the raster off screen to the left as if i move the line frequency to high up at the moment .
The videos I think i kept the crystal circuit driving the frame at 25 hz here .


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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:31 pm

I have been working on the tlc1799 and added a HC7414 after the oscillator as in this circuit using the 7404
https://www.triplespark.net/elec/oscillator/LTC1799/
I mainly wanted to see if it helped in coupling the oscillator to the 4040 on the DAC ,i ended up still having to use .33uf ac coupling but the 7414 did make a cleaner square wave i could see on the scope on the higher frequencies and all up happier with this set up than before .
I am happy just to use the monitor to what it can do i really wanted something over 100 lines and it can do that and a bit more .
Below i am Adjusting the low to wide frequency range on the line frequency again the frame is set on 25hz ,as the line frequency increases its signal shrinks well it looks like it does on my scope but so does the sawtooth so my bet it is .

Testing the LTC1799 with my frequency meter i am getting 179khz 3.9mhz on its high range setting i can see before this meter misreads .
I also had the problem the higher reading frequency meter it does not work on testing the sawtooth frequency correctly so used my scope meter here which does work up to a point... so checking the output line sawtooth frequency this range it starts bit below 800hz at the low end adjustment to the high end 5khz ,adjusting higher it misreads too but i can see on the monitor line frequency is still increasing .
So here on 800hz line and 25 hz frame its 32 line ...so 1,6 khz 64 line 3.2 khz 128 line as examples and all between ....also notice the line spacing is great because the amplitude of the input square wave to the DAC is greater on a larger lower frequency ......have to really adjust the size width controls for what ever line rate wanted as expected bit harder on a magnetic deflected tube but it does have a range even if its not displayed to full screen size,so it will not be able to do every thing correctly but should be able to show some thing on the screen on a few different line rates well that's still the plan if it cooperates . :roll:
My chart shows what is expected at those line and frame frequency's using the 3.2mhz crystal oscillator to Steves DAC circuit apart from the 12.8khz but i would expect the tlc1799 would be able to push it to the 180 line and up to the baird 240 line..I hope..
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:29 pm

Something i over looked when checking signals with my scope was when the sawtooth from the DAC when connected to the deflection circuit it distorts the waveform ,so i was looking into that problem today .
I made a breadboard circuit of this buffer opamp circuit below or 2 really ,for the vertical and horizontal this helped ,i used a Tl082/the resistor not marked is a 4.7k
linearity is a bit off towards the bottom of the scan but not as gappy as it was .
Also finished a matrix board version for testing as well.
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:50 pm

Well i did a bit today added mounted the buffer circuit between the sawtooth and deflection circuit and the variable line frequency clock and its panel controls
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but .... one mistake testing this variable clock as the main clock to both the line and frame so i was wondering why at times during the testing the scanning went a bit funny .. i sure gave the vertical yoke a good test out ...

I was going to just use the variable clock on the line side as i wanted standard or my vertical rates 6hz 12.5hz 25hz 50hz and 100hz .
I also have a problem with a warn trimmer on the line side of the buffer circuit but i am going to use the panel mounted pots which i will solder in tomorrow .... this any case helps adjust the line frame size .
Far from perfect and more work for sure and i don't think it will do every line rate possible but it will do a few and best part learning as i go .
video i did for Troy below ..... wires over the front are 2 leds on the panel i have yet to find a use for .

youtu.be/mejWmddDhdk
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:46 am

Today i gave control grid modulating a go ,only problem was the video circuit needs to be on the deflection circuits power supply its variable but the deflection circuits running a lot higher than the 12 volts needed for the video circuit ,ran out of time today to add a 7812 7912 so kept both running on dual 12 volts with lower deflection for now .
Tests today were 32 64 line i tried 128 but results were not best yet also no syncing at all again just testing the modulating side of it ,
Sorry about my crappy filming did not take into account glare off the screen this afternoon .any case not the best pictures ever but at least its something .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B8cyM ... e=youtu.be
I have waited a while since i did this post to do some night tests for better results .
better qualilty to view the file than on you tube but it is also my filming distance i have to get right too

photos below are all 32 line on the 2nd video and 2 or 3 of the first videos are 32 line then rest 64 line ,much happier with those results from tonights tests....see you tube link below but the files do look better than down grading it to you tube
BTW Andrew i had trouble with adding you tube window and not sure the video player is working in case its just my computer ,i tried again with the skull videos that worked may be the file was to big not waiting long enough.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyP03-j ... e=youtu.be



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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:26 pm

Had a some more time this afternoon so replaced the warn trimmer on the buffer circuit ,and added a dual 12 volt regulators so i can adjust the deflection amp voltage again .
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Below i thought i better use a test card video at some stage so here it is below 32 line aspect ratio and scan direction off but still works

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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor 128 line test

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:58 pm

I haven't had a chance to look into making some 128 line videos yet i only have what i have used for testing some time back not really great test cards really best i could do today .
I know there is a bandwidth problem here as well but thanks to smeezekitty's FreeNBTV software on the forum i can make something for testing 1.6khz 12hz .
What i find interesting on all the rates i have tried 32 64 128 there is no line roll at all just a slow frame roll using Steve's DAC circuit and a crystal clock ...this one must be closer to the correct frequencies ,i forgot where i was at when i did a video test before i cased this many a post ago but the image rolled all over the place not the case now,i have no syncing at all here !
I will have see what i changed last time to this ,i think i used the pmt cameras circuits to drive the deflection circuits but they should be the same mmm!
BTW Steve thanks for the work in this circuit ...making good use of of it ! i have used it twice now and both different ideas i want to do a trifector and use it on a vidicon camera after this is done .




The Thylacine on the Thylacine !
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Dave Moll » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:28 am

Great image there of Herman Munster.
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Re: The Thylacine higher line rate monitor

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:48 pm

Dave Moll wrote:Great image there of Herman Munster.


Thanks Dave i thought i could only match Herman with Donald Trump but even 32 lines does not seem to improve him :shock:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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More 128 line testing

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:01 pm

OK i have worked out cats are the best test cards subjects ! pasty faced people not so good :lol:

The 64 line eye chart test card video below i change the line frequency about the image drift i noticed speeds up with line frequency.... very slow at 32 line twice as fast 64 line so on
So far i was expecting as what i see on the PC NBTV viewers a double image so on switching to half line rate but the other way around its a double increased size image i was not expecting as i have not seen this before.



I Still have a bit of work i want to do on the monitor with the controls but happy with it .
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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