The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Centralised area for notes about construction projects. Each project has its own sub-forum. In the sub-forums will be topics relevant to parts of that project (e.g., there might be a topic on CRT problems). If you start a construction diary, just post in the forum with your project name as the topic, and a moderator will create a sub-forum for your project.

Moderators: Steve Anderson, Dave Moll, Andrew Davie

The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:40 pm

I mentioned on the Thylacine build i was planning on a vidicon camera build did a little more construction on it today ,its been put on the back burner for a fair while with the monitor builds ..
xq1272.jpg
Its and XQ1290 not 72
xq1272.jpg (30.95 KiB) Viewed 667 times

Had a brake from the monitor today and dug out the the vidicon in its biscuit tin to mount some brackets transformers sockets such so i can just work on the circuits .
Tube being used is one from Troys collection and the focus and deflection coils its a XQ1290 thanks to CQ tv magazine i see is a replacement or copy of the EMI9677 where there is a bit of data about that one .

It also came with a preamp no data but i looked it to see if i could work it out ,that was a few months back and worked out it use's a dual supply
23548022_10215172437403939_1643251946_n.jpg

Now to the Build evolution ...
I needed a case only thing big enough was a biscuit tin
23476151_10215150242409078_919063053_n.jpg

I saw that just big enough to fit the large yoke and yoke adjustments housing and preamp and this size of circuit matrix board ...
23476730_10215150244049119_1311098231_n.jpg

Next was mounting a old 35mm lens and working focus distance to the Target tube face the focus can be adjusted manually via a control you might be able to see .
snapshot_002.png
snapshot_002.png (232.05 KiB) Viewed 667 times
Attachments
video-1510434224_Segment_0_x264.mp4
(2.97 MiB) Downloaded 371 times
snapshot_004.png
snapshot_004.png (152.64 KiB) Viewed 667 times
snapshot_014.png
snapshot_014.png (217.67 KiB) Viewed 667 times
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:58 pm

Next i was working on powering the tube when i got around to needing it .

25188451_10215424878674813_201476198_n.jpg


My power supply for the HV pretty close to wanted voltages

25105563_10215424860474358_2031549317_n.jpg


circuit made at the time few months ago

25188380_10215424892835167_1156500387_n.jpg

25181913_10215424888195051_446184647_n.jpg


Test with 2 back to back 12 volt transformers i got 200 volts to feed this circuit
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:37 pm

I also finished off the dual 12 volt and 5 volt supplies on the board last posted .
IMG_1660.JPG
IMG_1660.JPG (364.6 KiB) Viewed 664 times

Now we are up to date and things needed mounting in the case to move forward .
working on getting the AC supply operational
IMG_1665.JPG
IMG_1665.JPG (290.93 KiB) Viewed 664 times

IMG_1666.JPG
IMG_1666.JPG (315.29 KiB) Viewed 664 times

IMG_1668.JPG
IMG_1668.JPG (286.48 KiB) Viewed 664 times


Had to have a base to solder the AC outputs from the transformers their leads were to short to feed direct to the DC circuits
IMG_1670.JPG
IMG_1670.JPG (351.13 KiB) Viewed 664 times

My solution from scrapped board
IMG_1673.JPG
IMG_1673.JPG (320.87 KiB) Viewed 664 times

IMG_1674.JPG
IMG_1674.JPG (280.29 KiB) Viewed 664 times

All transformers mounted wired up just have to connect the Ac to the dc supply
IMG_1676.JPG
IMG_1676.JPG (347.47 KiB) Viewed 664 times

IMG_1678.JPG
IMG_1678.JPG (367.7 KiB) Viewed 664 times

Testing the HV all fine
IMG_1685.JPG
IMG_1685.JPG (348.48 KiB) Viewed 664 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:50 pm

And where we are at today
IMG_1690.JPG
IMG_1690.JPG (308.44 KiB) Viewed 663 times

IMG_1689.JPG
IMG_1689.JPG (313.86 KiB) Viewed 663 times


The plan for the camera is a 3rd go at the same DAC circuit i used on the PMT camera and the Thylacine monitor so another multi system idea ,worked well last two times and a good choice for some thing like this .
Well see how it go's when i finish those circuits ,fingers crossed i don't run into to many problems . :roll:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Klaas Robers » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:34 am

Harry, I see that you have a Philips pick-up tube. What is the colour of the target (the front of the tube, where you project the scene onto)? I have seen dark grey, dark blue / purple and yellow. The last tubes are Plumbicons.
User avatar
Klaas Robers
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:42 pm
Location: Valkenswaard, the Netherlands

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:04 pm

Klaas Robers wrote:Harry, I see that you have a Philips pick-up tube. What is the colour of the target (the front of the tube, where you project the scene onto)? I have seen dark grey, dark blue / purple and yellow. The last tubes are Plumbicons.

Hi Klass its a Vidicon ..looks grey in this light to me and the data says its copy or replacement of another known one this is a XQ1272 same as the EMI9677.
Wish it was a Plumbicon they are better than the vidicon's as you know .
Attachments
IMG_1692.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Klaas Robers » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:29 am

Yes, Plumbicons are better, however that is mainly visible in 3-tube colour TV cameras. For B&W a vidicon is very well usable as there is no matching between the three tubes needed.
And the other item: a Plumbicon is faster for quick movements in the scene. For NBTV this is much less an item with a frame rate that is 4 times as slow, and for SSTV not at all.

So be happy with your vidicon, most TV camera's have done with it. And they did it well.
User avatar
Klaas Robers
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:42 pm
Location: Valkenswaard, the Netherlands

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:03 pm

Klaas Robers wrote:Yes, Plumbicons are better, however that is mainly visible in 3-tube colour TV cameras. For B&W a vidicon is very well usable as there is no matching between the three tubes needed.
And the other item: a Plumbicon is faster for quick movements in the scene. For NBTV this is much less an item with a frame rate that is 4 times as slow, and for SSTV not at all.

So be happy with your vidicon, most TV camera's have done with it. And they did it well.


I didn't know the Plumbicons were quicker for movement i do recall a Vidicon i once had did have a bit of a movement lag if you moved to quick .
Any case that's ok i do like the tube i have .
They are an interesting device i am trying to take care and using information i have gathered as to what i can and can't do .
I read somewhere and i think i should say it here for others about the target connection never solder any thing to the target ..i think the reason the heat would cause damage to the Target layer ...i have a thin metal connection that is just touching connection .
I also think it's not a good idea powering it up unless your deflection is working must be the camera version of trying to run a crt with no deflection at full operating voltages burning a hole into the Phosphor or this case the photo sensitive layer .
And we all know the biggest no no pointing it at something to bright can burn the image on the thing if you are lucky and its not to bad it may fade over time if not and you have pointed your camera tube at the sun if only for a second you pretty much have burnt that on it permanently.
Well Klaas my plans here are to duplicate Steve Anderson's DAC circuit so making this camera also multi system NBTV 32 lines up and a few frame rates ..SSTV has been on my mind but i have a few spare PMT tubes for a camera on that side of things but that's for another time.
I am going to try a change in the circuit only in doing away with the mechanical multi position switches for the frequency changes ..i am looking into using 2 4017s just with a push button it switching a 2 4066 Quad Bilateral Switch for the line a one for the framing and it seems to be fine at the top 3.2 mhz frequency and just switching between line and frame rates that way ...see how it go's.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

The Cyclops a Vidicon project Frequency switching tests

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:36 pm

Took me a little while i am half finished on the push button frequency switching debugged the 4017 part of the circuit its a touchy ic but had a few handy to use .....its switching 6 bilateral switches in 2 4066 ic's to switching frequencies to the second half of Steve Anderson's DAC circuit the line frequencies in this case .
IT was a bit of a toss up either go a 6 pole switch or this way had it on my mind to give it a go and seems to work .
I will have to draw up a schematic but here's Steve's circuits the first below ... i am again not using the 4046 part of the circuit but a 74hc04 3.2Mhz crystal oscillator in its place.
Harry%27s Timebase Logic 1.gif
Harry%27s Timebase Logic 1.gif (14.4 KiB) Viewed 562 times


Since i am working on the line side at the moment feeding the 6 frequency out puts from the 4040 lc to 6 inputs of the 2 4066 ic's all the outputs are connected together as there will be only one output as the 4017 controls each switch.
4066-quad-bilateral-switch-pinout.png
4066-quad-bilateral-switch-pinout.png (70.82 KiB) Viewed 562 times

The control part of it is to switch on only one switch at a time in the 4066 and is controlled by a 4017 counting to 6 and resetting pin 14..... that is feed a pulse via slow running 555 via momentary switch which will start and stop the 4017's count ...so you can either just use it as a momentary switch or hold it in and move the count to another count position quickly ...the later is adjusted via the frequency set on the 555 .
Very similar to this circuit below apart from a few value changes in the 555 and a momentary switch between the 555 pin 3 and pin 14 of the 4017 which also has a 10uf cap on pin 14 which gives a clean count and start and stop and its adjusted to count to 6 not 10 as here .
Also each led has its own 1k resistor unlike this example ...reason also i put led indicators so much easier to debug the circuit and i want some line and frequency indication when i case this circuit .
LED-Chaser-using-555-Timer-and-4017-IC-Working.gif
LED-Chaser-using-555-Timer-and-4017-IC-Working.gif (122.01 KiB) Viewed 562 times

The common outputs from 4066's will be fed as before to the 4040's pin 10 Steve's circuit below
Line %26 Frame Ramp Generators l.gif

I will have to make this circuit above next after i finish the frame version of the 4017 and 4066 circuit ,the ramp generators will be on another board with the yoke deflection amplifier transistors ,
Below testings frequency switching from 1A to 1F out of ic102 74hc4040 with the 4017 and 4066 circuit ....frequency meter takes a few seconds to catch up to the frequency change.
Attachments
MVI_1699_x264.mp4
(7.94 MiB) Downloaded 282 times
IMG_1701.JPG
IMG_1701.JPG (395.5 KiB) Viewed 562 times
IMG_1700.JPG
IMG_1700.JPG (394.99 KiB) Viewed 562 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:40 pm

I finished the frame side of the frequency switching and ramp generation circuit today...coming together well so far . 8)
addtext_com_MDYyNDQyMzUwNTM.jpg

Its interesting to me using the same circuit for 3 different devices .
add_com_MDYyNzM3MzUwODQ.jpg
add_com_MDYyNzM3MzUwODQ.jpg (213.91 KiB) Viewed 529 times

This is the crystal clock circuit
a_com_MDYyMDMzMzUwMDE.jpg
a_com_MDYyMDMzMzUwMDE.jpg (53.29 KiB) Viewed 529 times

Work on the deflection circuit next .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:11 pm

I worked on powering up the DC supply today ...all went well and i think its best to test my circuits on the cyclops power supply now any problems will show up if any :roll: ,had to adjust the power supply circuit as well for the first frequency switching board needs 6 volts to work correctly after adding the framing circuit so an excuse to fix that now .
IMG_1727.JPG
IMG_1727.JPG (385.18 KiB) Viewed 507 times

I took this photo before i added the last connector on the Gate 4 and 2 thus missing here Whoops
powercyclopsaddtext_com_MDQ0OTIwNjA1ODY.jpg
powercyclopsaddtext_com_MDQ0OTIwNjA1ODY.jpg (232.63 KiB) Viewed 507 times

My transformers supply
cyclopsIMG_1724-crop.JPG
cyclopsIMG_1724-crop.JPG (35.76 KiB) Viewed 507 times

Testing all voltages ok on the DC side apart from the HV needs dropping a touch on the positive side might use a load resistor and see .
The focus coil voltage is adjustable to 35 volts which should be in some range below that .
I tested the framing switching circuit and ramp DAC circuit yesterday all well so far..... i was going to hook it all up again today to the cyclops supply but run out of time tonight so that's for another day .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Klaas Robers » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:51 am

I am pleased to see that your way of working improved very much. In the past you did alll you could and switched on to see "that it doesn't work". Now you work step by step and check every step by measuring voltages. That is the way to go.!

At last you learned to work as a proper engineer. I hope, and I expect, this leads to succes for you.
User avatar
Klaas Robers
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:42 pm
Location: Valkenswaard, the Netherlands

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:57 pm

Klaas Robers wrote:I am pleased to see that your way of working improved very much. In the past you did alll you could and switched on to see "that it doesn't work". Now you work step by step and check every step by measuring voltages. That is the way to go.!

At last you learned to work as a proper engineer. I hope, and I expect, this leads to succes for you.


Thank You Klaas for your kind words i do think very highly of you and others on the forum i try and learn from my mistakes when advice is given .
I can see most of the time its best use circuits you know work ...i used your modulation circuit worked in the SSTV monitor so used it also in the Thylacine monitor ..so a bit of you in there as well .
It might seem this one has gone very quick up to this point but its been many months i have been thinking about it more than hands on work and researching what i wasn't sure about before i got to the circuits ....i know every thing on the dc supply to the scanning circuits so on will work just as you say making sure they work in the first place testing and moving forward a bit of self discipline here ...
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:25 pm

Looked into powering up the frequency switching board and ramp generators to the cyclops power supply no problems here .
IMG_1732.JPG
IMG_1732.JPG (357.31 KiB) Viewed 480 times

Also added a combined 200k load resistor and trimmer to the positive side of the vidicon power supply so i could adjust it to wanted 380 volts for Grid 4 might have to increase the 39k resistor to something touch higher for Gride 2 as i am getting 318v wanted voltage 300 volts.
IMG_1729.JPG
IMG_1729.JPG (334.68 KiB) Viewed 480 times

Testing the voltage drop on the load resistors i have found no problems with temperature seems to work fine /
Attachments
IMG_1728.JPG
IMG_1728.JPG (395.04 KiB) Viewed 480 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3749
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Steve Anderson » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:07 pm

Harry, I concur with Klass's posting above. We're all learning, all acquiring wisdom from others and experience when things don't quite go as planned.

One of the most useful skills is filtering out 'The Wheat from the Chaff'. The 'net IS a wonderful resource but it's also full of downright rubbish. Filtering one out from the other has become an essential skill in this day and age, whatever field you may be involved in.

One of the best tools for learning in this realm is a circuit simulator, they're not perfect but they are a very useful tool. Instead of spending time and money on building a circuit that is supposed to work, you simulate it and if the circuit is up to the task all should be well. A circuit that would take you hours to physically build can be simulated in a few minutes.

It's great for learning the "What If I do This?" So you change a resistor value and see what happens. They take a while to get to grips with but it is worth it. You can't blow anything up, you can change things as you see fit, and you can do all this while you're on an airplane (rules allowing).

There are a number of freebies out there - others please make suggestions - but the full-blown versions do cost quite a lot. But even so the freebies are still a useful tool for NBTV stuff. The freebies usually limit you to the number of components in a circuit or some other constraint - so all you do is break a circuit down into bite-sized pieces and do one chunk at a time...as if you were actually testing it on the bench!

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3696
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Next

Return to Construction Diaries - Electronic Televisions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron