The Cyclops a Vidicon project

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We have working deflection Amplifiers

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:45 pm

Good news on the deflection amplifiers .
Using again the circuit from the radio communication hand book vol 2 as in the past 2 go's on the deep image SSTV project and The Thylacine monitor ,3rd time here .
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Testing them on both of the vidicon's Yoke coils show they sure work test points here are taken on the deflection coils picture 1 the vertical and 2 the horizontal ,my 1 mhz scope waveforms not good for higher frequency stuff so i suspect my results would look better on my 20 mhz scope ,any case it looks good so far .
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Heater test from yesterday you can just see the heater with current limiting resistors connected ...
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Next Step because i already have a pre amp i am right there ,that was tested again a few days ago ,i'll end up just inserting the sync in a similar way i have done in the PMT camera build that little circuit i have yet to build but i know what worked last time so just copy again .
I'll power up the tube in a few days in lower light levels for a start and see how it go's .
BTW great old vidicon build here below you tube link ,like the yoke coil test explained at the end dc applied to the yoke with a needle on string !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEoxVHxAapA&t=232s
This one below i am horrified ! :cry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNbuABjqXe4&t=1028s
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Wed May 02, 2018 11:33 pm

I was working on the back panel this afternoon ,so far i will have 2 Tri colour line indicators to replace the 6 led idea for the line indicators saves me drilling to many holes ! so half the line indicators will show up as red green or blue and same for the second . the frame with have a Tri colour led and a yellow to indicate the frequency change.
Have to wire these up tomorrow and the video output socket .
I made up my mind since i have room to add my own preamp and video sync mixer and switch between the RCA preamp and my circuit...I am working on that at the moment ,then the testing begins either i have a multi system NBTV camera or a Vidicon in a Biscuit tin ! :lol:
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Last edited by Harry Dalek on Thu May 03, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu May 03, 2018 1:33 pm

Ok finished the back panel indicators and switching so that's working out of the way ,i'll look into the target out put to the video circuit and adding sync pulses.
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun May 06, 2018 7:47 pm

I have been working out the sync circuit for the video sync mixing part of the project ,i wanted the sync pulse adjustable was going to use a mono chip but experimenting the old 555 as a mono stable and a 74HC14 to invert the pulse seems to work well ... i had these laying around so handy ,the mono chips i used were a bit temperamental on the higher frequency end .
Yes i need to rotate my Scope CRT its still loose from the PMT flying spot scanner tests and rotated a touch :roll: ,test point here in the video its the out put of the 74HC14 testing the horizontal here only i have finished the vertical side as well ..the pulse width is adjustable but will look into the amplitude before mixing as well .

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Working on the circuit here made so i can adjust trimmers while slotted in the camera ,testing the vertical pulse to the circuit here .
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I also have been working on adding a better HC 4040 a Philips chip ,my mistake buying these were their little board is wider than the normal ic 16 pin sockets so i only have room for one there ....had room still on one side of the switching frequency board to add its own wider socket to plug this in .
Earlier post i did make up a bent plug to plug it into normal 16 pin socket but it was a bit loose i was not happy with that idea .
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BTW i worked out its much easier to solder these tiny chips wrapping a strand of copper wire wrapped around the soldering iron tip using the tip of the wire for soldering , i used the strand from electrical home power wiring just thick enough to be useful its around the same size as the tiny chips leads ..thinner the solder is would make life easier as well here but the soldering iron idea here really makes it easier i was also using a small battery iron as well .
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I did hope to power up the Vidicon this weekend but not to be ,there's only a little more to do but needed to know every thing works so testing retesting every thing i change add something ....hope it will be later this week .
Attachments
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri May 11, 2018 12:43 am

I have finished the camera enough to night for testing it will of cause need tweaking to get any thing out of it ,but tonight i got some light sensitivity out of the vidicon tube this is a good start .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri May 11, 2018 10:43 pm

So far very rudimentary results ..but for me it's further than i have ever got with a image tube of this type .
I can see the problem i have is the video signal is inverted ,in the test below.
Also the round shape of the vidicon is showing up ,the magnetic focus seems to increase and decrease the scan area zoom in and out i was not expecting it to do this ,catch 22 is full screen its less light sensitive so for now i am letting this show up for show and tell :wink:
Test here 32 line so i can use Garys software to view easy ,i am just shinning a torch on my door the vidicon is picking up the reflection but showing up black due to the inverted video ,easy enough to invert it that might fix that problem .
So i will work on the problems see if i can improve on this for next time .

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MVI_1838_x264.mp4
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Klaas Robers » Sat May 12, 2018 8:45 pm

Very good !

That you see the circle of the vidicon's target will say that your scanning is too wide. If you make the amplitude of the sawtooth voltages lower, the image will enlarge. This is a camera and of course this is opposite to the reactions of a monitor.

But first make that you can see something in the circle, so place a picure in front of your camera and try to focus the lens and then the focus current. Then you can center the picture mechanically and decrease your scan until you have got a screen filling picure.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun May 13, 2018 1:02 am

Klaas Robers wrote:Very good !


Thanks Klaas i was very happy with that first simple displaying the light spot from my torch for me a good first step for getting this Vidicon to diplay something .

That you see the circle of the vidicon's target will say that your scanning is too wide. If you make the amplitude of the sawtooth voltages lower, the image will enlarge. This is a camera and of course this is opposite to the reactions of a monitor.


I looked into the sawtooth level controls the size of the saw tooth to the deflection circuits adjusting these either move the display up down or larger on the horizontal ...i have the deflection circuits running on dual 12 volt supply i will take your advice and drop this and see .
EDIT i forgot ....on the monitor i built when i adjust the size controls it takes a while before the deflection amplifiers catch up to the adjustment i will adjust and wait and see instead of expecting the adjustment to take effect right away...using the same circuit in the cyclops so should work the same !..Well after trying this i found no its pretty much giving the results i mentioned at the start .
But first make that you can see something in the circle, so place a picure in front of your camera and try to focus the lens and then the focus current. Then you can center the picture mechanically and decrease your scan until you have got a screen filling picure.

Infact before i saw your message today i did another test mainly playing with the focus lens and the amount of light needed to get some thing to show up if possible i didn't try the focus coil current but will now i know how to show some thing up as my hand in the video below ..i need to see if i can get a test card to show up as its a be touchy of the amount of light so it can't be to reflective ...lucky my hand isn't :) also tried my son William again in the second video bit blurry bit better towards the end ...i have to get him not to move so much :lol:
I didn't have much time today to try any thing else .

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MVI_1841_x264.mp4
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon May 14, 2018 6:45 pm

Just a test today i was looking into the magnetic focus coil and its effect on the target display area .zero volts to the coil is shown in the video and up to 12 volts the difference .
What i have noticed is the focus area tends to be further away from the lens larger this Target area is on the screen so what was in focus has to be in focus further away from the lens .
Also i was not sure at first but i am pretty sure a grid is showing up when increasing the Target area you might notice it toward the end of the video,wonder if its just the result of the software or i am really seeing a grid ...interesting .
Next i will look into what Klaas mentioned adjusting the dual supply lower on the deflection circuits ,again double checking with the amplitude of the sawtooth going into the deflection amplifiers it just moves the target screen up and down or side to side adjusting this .

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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Klaas Robers » Thu May 24, 2018 1:11 am

It should be such that if you decrease the peak-peak amplitude of the sawteeth, while the centre of the sawteeth voltage stays at the same DC-value, that the circle should get larger. Look well at the DC voltage of the middle of the sawtooth voltages, as if that changes too, then the circle shifts. May be you have to adjust two trimmer resistors at the same time, one for the amplitude, the other for the DC value.

And do it one by one, so first the horizontal and then the vertical sawtooth. At the end the circle should disappear completely and the corners of your picture will be at the circle or slightly within the (invisible) circle.

Adjusting the focus current will rotate your picture somewhat. You can adjust that by placing a variable resistor in series with the coil.

And all do these adjustments with the highest line numbers for the video. If you do this at 32 lines, you can't see any changes in the focussing. I did this always at 625 lines CCIR scan.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu May 24, 2018 12:17 pm

Klaas Robers wrote:It should be such that if you decrease the peak-peak amplitude of the sawteeth, while the centre of the sawteeth voltage stays at the same DC-value, that the circle should get larger. Look well at the DC voltage of the middle of the sawtooth voltages, as if that changes too, then the circle shifts. May be you have to adjust two trimmer resistors at the same time, one for the amplitude, the other for the DC value.

And do it one by one, so first the horizontal and then the vertical sawtooth. At the end the circle should disappear completely and the corners of your picture will be at the circle or slightly within the (invisible) circle.

Adjusting the focus current will rotate your picture somewhat. You can adjust that by placing a variable resistor in series with the coil.

And all do these adjustments with the highest line numbers for the video. If you do this at 32 lines, you can't see any changes in the focussing. I did this always at 625 lines CCIR scan.


Thanks for the Advice on the focus and deflection coils ,i will take on your procedures when i can get to it wish i could do it now.
The reason i have not been on this for a while is i had a disaster of a problem the HV negative to 100 volt wire had come loose and when i was adjusting the focus voltage circuit to work on higher current that had come loose and was sparking i found out too lake after switching the camera on and wondering why my head amp was not working ...this problem pretty much killed my rca head amp and a few other little things that were easier to fix .
So i think every thing now is ok testing it apart from i need to make a head amp for it ..that's what i am looking at at the moment .
Sorry for any one following this i didn't explain don't worry i am still on it .
Any ideas for a head amp i would be interested in i think the one i had been using for my PMT projects might not be up to the job ,i know theres also a TL071 Grahams saticon camera head amp is a option
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat May 26, 2018 9:07 pm

I had forgotten that lab guy has a iconoscope head amp circuit for he's Tiny Ike so a proven working circuit worth a shot .
http://labguysworld.com/IconoscopeCameraProject_007.htm
TinyIke_060.jpg

So giving this a try .
i don't have he's vhf FET transistor but i do have others and being cautious i have put in sockets for the transistors to change them easy and to test what transistor work and what doesn't .I put in 2 for the FET so i can change fet's with different pinout's which is more the problem in this circuit for me .
Any thing comes of it i will post up the results .
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun May 27, 2018 6:34 pm

Tested the head amp with these replacements and works with these Transistors i had handy also ,may be some bandwidth differences but work it does with these.
FET
K19
K55
K30A
NPN
bc548
bc549
c1216
c945
8050
c829
c1694
c930
2n2222A
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Steve Anderson » Mon May 28, 2018 1:56 pm

I'm sure many know this - but the devices marked for example, c1216, are a shortened version of 2SC1216, there just isn't the space on the body to print the entire type number. Also applies to 2SAxxxx. These generally come from the far-east, Japan, Korea and others.

With the full type number you may have a better chance of finding the datasheet for them...no promises though!

Also K55 is a 2SK55...generally FETs.

Steve A.
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Re: The Cyclops a Vidicon project

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon May 28, 2018 4:43 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:I'm sure many know this - but the devices marked for example, c1216, are a shortened version of 2SC1216, there just isn't the space on the body to print the entire type number. Also applies to 2SAxxxx. These generally come from the far-east, Japan, Korea and others.

With the full type number you may have a better chance of finding the datasheet for them...no promises though!

Also K55 is a 2SK55...generally FETs.

Steve A.


Yes Steve
Your explanation of the transistor number letters before is pretty much correct ,i was using those to check my transistors against those data sheets not really thinking much of it as i expected they were the same or equivalent ,on any i could not find a data sheet i just didn't list the transistor ...more than likely my eyes not seeing the correct letters or numbers if they are a bit worn .
That list pretty much just a random section of transistors see if they worked can't say i had any that didn't apart from one FET.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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