The Binocular

Centralised area for notes about construction projects. Each project has its own sub-forum. In the sub-forums will be topics relevant to parts of that project (e.g., there might be a topic on CRT problems). If you start a construction diary, just post in the forum with your project name as the topic, and a moderator will create a sub-forum for your project.

Moderators: Steve Anderson, Dave Moll, Andrew Davie

The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:33 pm

I am giving my self a rest on the Jeffree cell for a while due to some unexpected acquired beauties ,its time to start and repay my good luck :wink:
For a start this one came to me reading Steve's past go at the Brute which i loved at the time and still do ,a dual CRT one as a monitor and one for the nbtv waveform just for the hell of it a scope .
So a sort of tribute ..Brutus the Younger The Binocular :lol:
Yes i am thinking of trying a on board power supply in that corner a Mu metal shield right across the case next to last CRT would be great if i had it ! but i don't ,i do have a very large old tv transformer with a shield on it which i would think is mu metal i could try .
Any case its something to think about and can just power it from the power supply on my bench worst case .
Both tubes are 3BP1,s i will save my smaller crts for a smaller case.
Attachments
IMG_0523.JPG
IMG_0527.JPG
IMG_0530.JPG
IMG_0531.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Steve Anderson » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:17 pm

Interesting find. Did it have any guts when you found it? It appears to be an abandoned project of some description, I wonder what it originally was or what was planned for it?

You should be able to adapt previous circuits to suit these CRTs, I'll look up the datasheets for these tubes just to make sure there are no surprises waiting.

The good news is as the CRTs are the same type there'll be a great deal of commonality in the power supply and deflection circuits. So not as complex as two separate displays/monitors.

Interesting how the front of the CRTs are mounted, they appear to be PC fan housings with the motor and blades removed, clever idea!

Steve A.

Just looked up datasheets, no surprises, all very standard for a CRT of this era.

It seems the rear of the CRTs have no mechanical support, they're just relying on the front mounting, I would spend some thinking about changing that.

Before you do anything else, check that the heaters in the CRTs aren't open-circuit. Pins 1-14 should read just a couple of ohms when cold.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:00 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:Interesting find. Did it have any guts when you found it? It appears to be an abandoned project of some description, I wonder what it originally was or what was planned for it?


Sorry Steve i didn't explain the case its in at all.
The idea of it is Your Brute think you were planning a scope and monitor in the same unit so that idea .
The rest is my idea to do some thing similar since i now have a fair few 3bp1's they seemed to me to be good for this size case ,the case is a old VCR recorder dual dvd player that's where the guts have gone !
I have turned the case around partly mounted the 2 CRT's so the case is back the front for a VCR ! and painted ...stereo model so lots of predrilled holes to fill with future pots .

You should be able to adapt previous circuits to suit these CRTs, I'll look up the datasheets for these tubes just to make sure there are no surprises waiting.


Yes for sure i am for sure using the Anderson 3bp1 CRT circuit....for both the scope and monitor this would be an easy fix to power the scope CRT .
The power supply i am checking the Transformer today what i exactly have before i work out the power supply i am using an old scope transformer or hope to so not even bothering to mount it till i know there no magnetic field problem ......or i can use the little mu metal i have fix any problem here .
And as with your Brute if it does not work out just use the cable to the other monitors AC power box supply .

The good news is as the CRTs are the same type there'll be a great deal of commonality in the power supply and deflection circuits. So not as complex as two separate displays/monitors.


Arrr yes reason i also choose 2 3bp1's and not another type same power supply so much easier !

Interesting how the front of the CRTs are mounted, they appear to be PC fan housings with the motor and blades removed, clever idea!

Steve A.


Well it was my idea i have used a bit notice the the big fan housing i used on the SSTV behind they fit the CRT's like a glove ! all you have to worry about is mounting the back infact smaller fans fit the tube here as well...i am thinking about that part as i might use them on the small CRTs face in future instead...so yes thinking about a neat mount for back of the tubes .

Just looked up datasheets, no surprises, all very standard for a CRT of this era.


I think the 3Bp1's i have vary who made them similar is good but i could match with what i got once i have a good look

It seems the rear of the CRTs have no mechanical support, they're just relying on the front mounting, I would spend some thinking about changing that.


No just mentioned working on that ,i want to do it neater so no rush my main thing was mounting the tubes front yesterday ...i don't enjoy cutting out holes and the case part really ,and not easy to get a case these days so repurpose i say !
So VCR's come in handy case wise as well !...I am going to check the transformer today ,and i need to get a few 75 v 5.1v Zeners this week .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Steve Anderson » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:01 pm

CRT front mounting - good idea Harry, I'll remember that for the next time I use a 3" CRT.

I'll have to review the previous 3BP1 CRT circuits to jog my memory...in the meantime you could apply power to the transformer you plan to use and see what voltages you get out of it. The power supply arrangements may need some changes depending on what you find. You may find them higher than what may be marked on the transformer (if at all) without any load, to a degree that's to your advantage...

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3793
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:58 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:CRT front mounting - good idea Harry, I'll remember that for the next time I use a 3" CRT.


Back from Checking the transformer ..i will post up results after this post .
You don't have to use it on display as here as i think i used in the 3bp1 Anderson behind the panel just the hold the CRT ...i forgot about that first time i tried it .

I'll have to review the previous 3BP1 CRT circuits to jog my memory...in the meantime you could apply power to the transformer you plan to use and see what voltages you get out of it. The power supply arrangements may need some changes depending on what you find. You may find them higher than what may be marked on the transformer (if at all) without any load, to a degree that's to your advantage...



Since its a old scope transformer its a touch better than the valve radio one i first used but more deadly as well i suppose ...i know you always have to think when doing this stuff don't touch any thing till your sure its unplugged

i will draw up the transformer winding's from my tests ...i used another 240 v out put from another transformer back to back with this one as i at first was not sure what was the negative AC swing connection so with a load it dropped the voltage to the 170's on the primary ....this gave the heater winding voltage of 4 volts and 240 0 240 v and another 2 windings gave about 500 volts
just need a voltage doubler for this one but might be tricky unless i can use capacitors in series to keep them about the voltage range ..may just be easier to use the standard 240 voltage winding and multiply that ..early days ....
Next i need to do a mains just to the transformer test .

This is a useful transformer with out that voltage drop on mains every thing would be higher .

I also noticed i still had a helium neon laser transformer junked from a very early record sized video player from the 80's it has a deadly 1000 v winding i am mentioning this one as seem's to have a copper shielding around the coil as in Klass's SSTV transformer he had to wind some copper around him self ...least thats how i think it works ...it does i think have low voltages for the electronics of the time as well ....but i am iffy using it ..reason i never have ...
The distance top left hand corner might be ok to mount the transformer ,but i might not bother till i know the raster is not distorted by picking up that transformer ...still think the scope one would be best .
i will post up next in a bit the transformer and what i think are the winding connections...
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:07 pm

Ok here is the transformer drawing what seem to be the windings .
It does have extra mains winding connections for other country voltages ..left these out for now .
IMG_0547.JPG

IMG_0532.JPG


Now notice the spring i have never come across this before its to the negative mains via a mains dual switch which also switches the positive off so Transformer is fully isolated via from mains.
...any case the spring is different i don't like it exposed like that carrying the mains so close to the case ,any one know what its for ?
IMG_0533.JPG


another look

IMG_0534.JPG


Voltages out below forgot to take a snap of the heater voltage but HV here , slight swing due to mains fluctuation from my first readings .

first half 240v 0 240 v
IMG_0543.JPG

second out 240v 0 240v
IMG_0544.JPG

500v windings
IMG_0545.JPG


The positive range mains connections for different mains voltages .
IMG_0540.JPG



Second transformer with 1000 volt winding with the red tape to remind me ..
IMG_0535.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:56 pm

The 3BP1 CRTs since they are both the same i just have to use the 3bp1 Anderson circuit for both but for the the scope i just keep the test circuit for the brightness control ...

3BP1 CRT 2.gif
3BP1 CRT 2.gif (12.52 KiB) Viewed 2325 times


The NBTV montior the brightness test circuit is removed and what ever NBTV circuit to modulate the opto coupler ..could if wanted just be a copy of the original ,my first thought was using the Scope circuit i used a while back but have not made up my mind here .

The thing that was my big mistake on the the original go was not earthing the ground connections to mains ground ..the 1400v had a nice time sparking to the unearthed ground connections killing some ic's 2 or 3 times till i tracked my mistake down to forgetting to connect the power supply mains earth . :roll:

I am reviewing the circuit here and looking into the power supply for now ,i will collect some parts this week i need and another full mains test of the transformer so i know voltages i will be getting here .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:27 pm

Well i did the direct mains test on the transformer voltages are now higher ...i didn't notice at first the highest voltage can also be split in half 345v 0 345 v or together 690 v also getting on the heater winding 6.2 volts .
Well this sort of makes my mind up to use one of the 345v for a multiplier for the high negative supply and the out the other for the positive Anode 2 voltage.
I was also thinking about the NBTV circuit side of things and will go with the original Anderson 3BP1 circuits here ..but will add some Rotary switches for 32 45 and 60 64 line so i can switch the line frequency as it worked rather well on the Devil monitor line rates up to 64 .
I ended up getting some parts needed as below waiting to be used ....i was happy they had the 4538 mono's they were having a hell of time trying to find them !
i cleaned up the transformer a bit its good for its age over 60 ,I am wanting the transformer about there but will not mount till i know its in the right place or i have to move it or angle it .

IMG_0553.JPG


I think i know what the spring is for as there was no fuse i think the metal its connected to heats up and the spring disconnects from the transformers negative side of the mains...if this is a good idea of not i am not sure its new to me !
IMG_0551.JPG


I have the mains socket PCU type mounted so i can at least hook up the transformer for power supply testing when i construct it ...i am banking on the power supply can handle both CRT's ..
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:27 pm

A while back i constructed the 3bp1 high voltage supply for some reason, the difference i have a heap of 8.2 M i think their 2 watt resistors that go across the capacitor to discharge them and used them here ....... this i can't use apart from testing the voltage now as its a positive version of Steves Negative circuit below ...Steve's Anderson original circuit used 1 M resistors ..
I would think they would dischange the capacitors faster....i did by the way buy a batch of 1 watt 1M resistors yesterday for this .
3BP1 PSU 3.gif
3BP1 PSU 3.gif (12.42 KiB) Viewed 2298 times


Any case i hooked up to the 345 v Ac supply getting with mains swing 943 to 945v out of this circuit no load which is a bit low ..running the first 3BP1 at 1400 v the data sheets says they are normally run a 1500 to 2000 v maximum 2200v .....

My situation here i could if i use the maximum AC both transformer winding's to this multiplier i would think it would double the result at -1890 v ..in range of the data but a voltage of -1400 i used before seemed fine and that's what the CRT circuit was designed to use .

I am thinking a wiser choice for me is to add another section or two to the multiplier and build the DC voltage up a touch more .

Least this circuit voltage test gives me an idea of what to expect and build

thats where i am up to today ! :wink:
Attachments
IMG_0556.JPG
IMG_0557.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:01 pm

Worked on the power supply reconstructed the board shown yesterday , i added one section to many gives 1800 volts next down which i am going to use 1400v...
so that was tested for an hour no smoke no caps cooked good sign i should think !

IMG_0559.JPG


Moved onto to positive supply and also since i have room i was thinking it would be a good idea to just have this as the CRT supply board as well ...working here on both CRT's supply circuits..some of the high wattage resistors are way off their shown valve all used because of their resistance readings..

I will finish this board off tomorrow .next the optocouplers some data below to jog my memory
Attachments
IMG_0561.JPG
2561_redimensionner.jpg
2561_redimensionner.jpg (7.73 KiB) Viewed 2284 times
ps25611_s.png
ps25611_s.png (3.31 KiB) Viewed 2284 times
ps2561_umgeb1.png
ps2561_umgeb1.png (3.75 KiB) Viewed 2284 times
Screen 00000.jpg
Screen 00000.jpg (5.4 KiB) Viewed 2284 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:20 pm

I fixed the Crt's in place from the rear and also this way using smaller power supply fan casings the tubes can still be rotated ,i didn't have similar fan types apart from size which nags me a bit still it works.
I will match the 3BP1's just noticed ones a bit different a touch shorter for a start
IMG_0570.JPG

IMG_0569.JPG


Also finished the HV and both CRT tube supply board circuits ..next have to make the low voltage supply board
IMG_0568.JPG
Attachments
IMG_0566.JPG
IMG_0572.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:46 pm

Bit more work today on the low power supply and matched the CRT's ...we now also have power that's the worst of it over .
IMG_0578.JPG

IMG_0579.JPG


Next deflection and ramp circuits ...
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:07 pm

Haven't posted a while still working on finishing the deflection amplifiers,the saw tooth circuits are almost done as well .
I have packed the circuits on the boards save a bit of wiring ,worked well for the devil monitor this ones a bit more complex with 2 deflection amplifiers ...
So need to test the Ramp and deflection circuits once finished before i hook any thing up to the crt's ..just an update
Attachments
IMG_0580.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:54 pm

I finished construction on the 2 deflection circuits ,i only have to add some pots before i can conduct tests..moved onto getting the Crts ready and hooked up the heaters i have these on a panel switch so to make the testing easier without having the CRT's on when i do waveform voltage tests.
The video and deflection boards will be side by side along the last CRT and i have also a little board for the scope tube both not shown here yet as mentioned have to add the pots so am not mounting them for good yet .
Attachments
IMG_0580.JPG
IMG_0581.JPG
3BP1 Base 1.gif
Thanks to Steve A
3BP1 Base 1.gif (5.5 KiB) Viewed 2136 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Binocular

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:23 pm

Worked on hooking up the the power supply board to the CRT's to light one up one and see the results ,there's a load drop to the high negative down to -1200 from -1400...
I think checking the voltages i was sold 5.7 v zeners instead of 5.1 volt versions :roll: ran out of time today to check some other voltages so just marked in what i could after wiring the thing up

addtext_com_MDM1MjA5NDc0OTQ.jpg
addtext_com_MDM1MjA5NDc0OTQ.jpg (99.66 KiB) Viewed 1958 times


First light on the the far 3BP1 there does not seem to be a magnetic field problem but have not been able to get better focus to really know yet .
Its fine at the moment any way as i haven't hooked up the ramp generators to the deflection amplifiers .
Getting there ....the raster dot is a bit brighter to the camera than the eye and not well focused yet so safe enough at the moment ,the HV power supply has to deal with 2 of these power supply circuits pretty much over lapped might have to fiddle with it a bit.

IMG_0591.JPG


IMG_0583.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4012
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Next

Return to Construction Diaries - Electronic Televisions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron