Build your own Circuit Board

A "new fashioned" televisor, using an Arduino to drive the motor and display.

Moderators: Steve Anderson, Dave Moll, Andrew Davie

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:58 am

Here's an interesting screen capture of a complete manual re-routing of the board. Sped up 8x to fix the boredom.

Attachments
route.mp4
(4.68 MiB) Downloaded 118 times
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:31 pm

I received this very interesting email from SeeedStudios...
"Problem Description:
This IC outline has appeared in all of your graphic layers and will cause short circuits and other undesired effects. Please generate your files again."

The "IC outline" is from the Arduino board I imported. I have been unable to delete it; I thought it was a virtual thing, but if it's actual copper it's a wonder that my original board even worked at all (!) It could very well explain the unexpected heating of the IRL540 seen in the earlier version from OSH Park. Also, it means that my v2 boards (3 of) which are currently en-route will have the same problem (probably) and are likely junk. Really pleased that the new manufacturer had a human check the files for me.

image002.jpeg
image002.jpeg (10.3 KiB) Viewed 438 times


image004.jpeg
image004.jpeg (9.6 KiB) Viewed 438 times


image006.jpeg
image006.jpeg (12.2 KiB) Viewed 438 times


What we're looking at is presumably that rectangle in the middle of the board. It defines the area of the Arduino Micro - however it should not be appearing anywhere other than on a silkscreen layer (!)



Edit: On reflection this is likely a difference between OSH Park using ".brd" file as source, and SeeedStudios using gerber files generated from a script. It's likely that the two different formats are slightly different in handling for this particular item. I'm pretty clear the rectangle was NOT on the OSHPark layers in unexpected locations. Will double-check, and in any case I know enough now to be able to design my own library item for the Arduino Micro, and so I'll do that and resubmit.

Also, I have found that PCBWay, used and recommended by a friend at work, has a near identical screen layout to SeeedStudio which leads me to suspect the latter is using the former as a service. The former offers many more postage options, including one which would put 10 boards in my hands for US$14. I'll go with them next!
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Steve Anderson » Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:04 pm

When you get the next batch of boards check that everything is connected to what it should be and not to what it shouldn't before stuffing components. Most multimeters have a continuity/buzzer function that allows you to check through this quite rapidly. It's a worthwhile investment in time and sanity.

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:22 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:When you get the next batch of boards check that everything is connected to what it should be and not to what it shouldn't before stuffing components. Most multimeters have a continuity/buzzer function that allows you to check through this quite rapidly. It's a worthwhile investment in time and sanity.

Steve A.



Will do. I found the issue, it being only with the latest design sent off. The microprocessor had no outline, so I manually drew one. Unfortunately I put the drawing on an incorrect layer, so it appeared as a wire instead of ink. You use the same tool to draw either; it's the destination layer that's important, and I got that wrong :) At least I'm certain of what that error was :)
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Steve Anderson » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:40 pm

Yep, you gotta get the correct layer, no different to AutoCad. When drawings contain upwards of 20 layers you really need to be on the ball. I've seen architectural drawings with over 160 layers. Jeez!

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:35 pm

I corrected and sent off the board for printing and the feedback is all now OK. I have two lots being made - one by SeeedStudios, and another by PCBWay. I also have a small lot pending from OSH Park. Pretty much out of date now, that last one, though I will populate and test anyway, as it uses LM317 for the power. Meanwhile I did yet another pass over the circuitboard and adjusted the dimensions to 1.609:1 just because this looks right to my eye :)

goldenratio3.jpg
goldenratio3.jpg (263.39 KiB) Viewed 424 times


I thought it might be interesting to have a go at the club circuits (analog) and get those into Eagle too, so there's a simple gerber file for anyone to print. Wouldn't be too much work. Also, could combine the boards onto a single mega-board easy enough. Will consider.
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Steve Anderson » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:53 pm

Andrew Davie wrote:I thought it might be interesting to have a go at the club circuits (analog) and get those into Eagle too, so there's a simple gerber file for anyone to print. Wouldn't be too much work. Also, could combine the boards onto a single mega-board easy enough. Will consider.


Yep, that would be worthwhile. But before actually going ahead it may be worth updating the existing circuits. e.g. the sync separator board uses three CA3140 chips, this could be changed to one CA3140 and one CA3240. This reduces board size, soldering and reduces the cost slightly. There are other items that could be reviewed too, more modern and smaller capacitors for example. But everything still through-hole, no surface-mount.

I believe Klaas did most, if not all, of the design, it would polite to run any changes past him first.

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:59 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:
Andrew Davie wrote:I thought it might be interesting to have a go at the club circuits (analog) and get those into Eagle too, so there's a simple gerber file for anyone to print. Wouldn't be too much work. Also, could combine the boards onto a single mega-board easy enough. Will consider.


Yep, that would be worthwhile. But before actually going ahead it may be worth updating the existing circuits. e.g. the sync separator board uses three CA3140 chips, this could be changed to one CA3140 and one CA3240. This reduces board size, soldering and reduces the cost slightly. There are other items that could be reviewed too, more modern and smaller smaller capacitors for example. But everything still through-hole, no surface-mount.

I believe Klaas did most, if not all, of the design, it would polite to run any changes past him first.

Steve A.


Noted. I don't have the skills to make mods (or the desire). I just thought having a good "template" of the existing design might be handy. Was just an idea.
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Steve Anderson » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:55 pm

I guess it may come down to how many are currently in stock of each type and when another batch may be required. I doubt there would be any urgency.

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Klaas Robers » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:46 pm

I made the circuit boards using "Paint" to make the masks. Mainly "copy and past". Design one IC-pad, copy it x 16 and we have an IC line-out. First there is a rough plan on paper, then it continues in a .bmp file.

Al boards are single sided, no plated through holes. Even with a PIC on the board we needed few connection wires. See the boards for Karen's projects. That makes them cheap, altough they could be slightly smaller in size when double sided and costly plated through. And .... members can do the drilling of the holes themselves.
User avatar
Klaas Robers
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1319
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:42 pm
Location: Valkenswaard, the Netherlands

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:11 am

Klaas Robers wrote:I made the circuit boards using "Paint" to make the masks. Mainly "copy and past". Design one IC-pad, copy it x 16 and we have an IC line-out. First there is a rough plan on paper, then it continues in a .bmp file.

Al boards are single sided, no plated through holes. Even with a PIC on the board we needed few connection wires. See the boards for Karen's projects. That makes them cheap, altough they could be slightly smaller in size when double sided and costly plated through. And .... members can do the drilling of the holes themselves.


Understood, though you can't really beat $5 for 10 boards + shipping ($9) for pcbway.com with double-sided and "professional" double-sided manufacturer with plated-through holes, silkscreen, etc. I think the days of sticking to single-sided and drill-your-own holes are probably numbered. With shipping included, just $1.40 each.
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby gary » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:58 pm

Andrew Davie wrote:
Understood, though you can't really beat $5 for 10 boards + shipping ($9) for pcbway.com with double-sided and "professional" double-sided manufacturer with plated-through holes, silkscreen, etc. I think the days of sticking to single-sided and drill-your-own holes are probably numbered. With shipping included, just $1.40 each.


LOL, Andrew I was hoping you would find a supplier like that. the yanks have had access to that for a few years (learnt through Hackaday) but the best I could find (available to Oz) was via Futurlec.com.au and whilst very competitive were nowhere near as cheap as that. That opens a world of opportunities. Well done.
Perfecting an NBTV system is like trying to slam a revolving door...
User avatar
gary
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 2264
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Bundanoon, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:46 pm

Andrew Davie wrote:I corrected and sent off the board for printing and the feedback is all now OK.


The SeeedStudios board arrived today - Express Post. I can't recall paying for express; but it's been a while so maybe they decided to expedite. Anyway, all look OK. I will populate one tomorrow and give it a test. Meanwhile, here's a photo with a blank and partially populated board. I made the tolerance (spacing) of components way too tight, and the sub-boards are too close. I had to file down the edges of the MicroSD reader to fit it and the adjacent components in. Lesson learned. Things don't have to be absolutely as small as possible and smaller. Also, the silkscreen on the front was fairly fine - good lettering - but the logo on the back was not really very good at all - just a mass of white instead of fine pixels. So, I need to downgrade the DPI for logo stuff.

seeed2.jpg
seeed2.jpg (495.84 KiB) Viewed 354 times


One thing I really dislike - they have added a serial/batch number to the board without asking. I don't like that at all. There's an option on PcbWay to opt out of that - I didn't see one on the Seeed ordering pages, but I expect it can be done.
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Steve Anderson » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:34 pm

They do look good, perhaps with the exception of the logo issue.

The numbers are possible file-names so if you order again you just quote the numbers and you don't have to re-send the files - unless you've made an update. I must admit it wouldn't bother me in the least.

I did come across a company who will etch in a hologram as per HP PC mainboards, can't remember who though.

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3635
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Build your own Circuit Board

Postby Andrew Davie » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:03 am

A mixed result. Quite disappointed on first review. Firstly I soldered the DC converters in backwards. Despite putting "IN" and "OUT" on the silkscreen so I wouldn't make that mistake... I made that mistake. The converter has an arrow pointing in the output direction. I soldered them with that arrow pointing towards where the power was going. Unfortunately, in my design, "OUT" was on the outer edge of the board. Anyway, after desoldering and resoldering, Arduino powered up and the MicroSD was working OK. The LCD wasn't working, and I tracked this down to a missing track - no ground connection. How on earth that got past me I don't know. Slack. I manually wired in the connection and the LCD working OK. This brings to mind a problem with the way I've been working. So keen to make improvements, I just assume that anything I add/change is better. In short, I didn't keep a backup of the file I sent off to be manufactured (at least not easy to find), and so I can't check the file to see if that track was indeed missing. It probably was. So, lesson learned there. Another issue is I need to keep clearly labeled backups of files so I can go back and look at "old stuff".
The IR sensors seemed to be working OK, as did the motor, but alas there's no clear synch and the system seems to reset just like the problem I had before with the power bricks - at exactly the same point, where the motor stops running at the point of initial "at correct speed" detection - when usage drops instantly from about 0.8A down to 0A as the motor cuts out - EMF backfeed perhaps??? Anyway, it sucks and I'm disappointed. Also, the LEDs - no sign of life. As I have newer boards on the way and I know these boards have at least one missing trace - well, I think I'm just going to junk them and take this as a bit of a learning experience. Bummer.
User avatar
Andrew Davie
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Andrew Davie's Arduino Televisor

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron