TRIO CO-1303D

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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:33 pm

Robonz wrote:Hi Harry

I do not fully understand what you are are doing but I can say if your DAC output is a bit delayed compared to the rest of the system then the 100uF output capacitor is likely adding some delay to your signal. It will only be a tiny delay though. To prove it you could add another 100uf capacitor on top of the 100uf and if the delay remains the same it is not the problem.


Any solution welcome Keith i more than likely have not explained what i am up to at this point reason i keep testing the slides at 32 64 line before moving on to higher line rates .
Problems ......to make the line and frame sawtooth for the scope raster that the pmt flying spot picks up Steve came up up with this digital solution using first a master clock running at 3.2768MHZ ......first this was a 4046 R/C oscillator and drift off that frequency was not much but it does not take much at the other end on the line frequency to go right out of sync ..i got a bit fed up with that and found there was a crystal at that frequency so i made a 4060 crystal oscillator and used that till now... i have a capacitor trimmer on it which i can adjust it a bit ...so i have adjusted the clock to one of the out puts of the 4040 line ic and pin 12 gives 400hz and i adjusted it to that ..recording that and playing back to Garys Doms software the sync is locking no drift but the out put of the DAC it drifts slight very slow picture roll so this ic must be causing a delay .....your solution might fix that or getting my frequency meter on the output of the DAC and seeing if i can adjust that clock to it .
The next problem is i making the video signal to record the video i am taking and i needed the line 400hz to insert via a monostable to the video sync mixer ...pin 12 of the line 4040 ic was a solution but because of i think the above first problem the sync bar is half way in the frame ..when i use as now the the out put of the DAC to do the same thing as in these videos i made today it is fine apart from the drift again ..So i am thinking the DAC is delaying things a slight amount which is understandable but i was not expecting that .
These videos are a bit better trying to find 35mm slides with large images ...the wav files shows the drifting but are clear need to adjust the aspect ratio by the looks of it ,i will post these two up and put some more later ...
Attachments
z6.wav
Stone head 32 line came out good
(5.16 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
z664.wav
Stone Head 64 line better Quality
(5.93 MiB) Downloaded 3 times
z6.wav-[NBTVA Standard]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide32.jpg
z6.wav-[NBTVA Standard]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide32.jpg (6.94 KiB) Viewed 338 times
IMG_0086.JPG
IMG_0086.JPG (158.59 KiB) Viewed 338 times
z664.wav-[NBTVA Standard - 64 line]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide64x.jpg
z664.wav-[NBTVA Standard - 64 line]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide64x.jpg (16.13 KiB) Viewed 338 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:07 pm

Looking more close at the crystal clock there was a bit of drift here from the start with a bit of redesign to it adjusting a resistor and caps its much better now ...i can't see any drifting on recording on Garys software same or Dom's for 32 .....but 64 line there's a touch on Doms ,it might just mean again another fine clock frequency adjustment any case better than it was .
I am not sure how the the nbtv software will go it i insert a framing pulse but i will have a look at that next it might be i can manually adjust the position with the monostable sync pulse width control .
some results of todays 32 line tests below .
Attachments
y.wav
stone head again sync problem fixed
(8.79 MiB) Downloaded 3 times
couple_x264.mp4
(14.76 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
couple2_x264.gif
couple2_x264.gif (4 MiB) Viewed 332 times
IMG_0093.JPG
IMG_0093.JPG (82.25 KiB) Viewed 332 times
bowl_x264.gif
bowl_x264.gif (4.79 MiB) Viewed 332 times
IMG_0091.JPG
IMG_0091.JPG (83.9 KiB) Viewed 332 times
y532.wav
(8.97 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
nbtvtestcard_x264.gif
nbtvtestcard_x264.gif (3.98 MiB) Viewed 332 times
y632.wav
(5.27 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
IMG_0094.JPG
IMG_0094.JPG (79.4 KiB) Viewed 332 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:59 pm

Here i have added the sync framing sync pulse also to these 32 and 64 line on these test cards.
BTW if you don't have a 64 line player you can down load from here ,does 32 and 48 line and others .
http://www.authorityfile.co.uk/NBSC/dow ... fault.aspx
Attachments
NBTVTESTCARD2_x264.mp4
(2.58 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
u1642.wav
64 line
(1.87 MiB) Downloaded 1 time
u1642.wav-[NBTVA Standard - 64 line]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide.jpg
u1642.wav-[NBTVA Standard - 64 line]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide.jpg (19.88 KiB) Viewed 330 times
u1.wav
32 line
(4.36 MiB) Downloaded 1 time
IMG_0095.JPG
IMG_0095.JPG (75.5 KiB) Viewed 330 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:02 am

I was looking into the distance of the slides from the crt i knew they had to be close but the plastic scope grid was in the way so got one between this and the crt face ....lighting and focus much better . it is upside down :roll: but hell it was hard to adjust there ..flipping it in the screen grab below .
Video 64 line .
Attachments
u8.wav-[NBTVA Standard - 64 line]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide.jpg
u8.wav-[NBTVA Standard - 64 line]-Slit - 1 Line high 1 sample wide.jpg (19.36 KiB) Viewed 328 times
u8.wav
64 line ...up side down slide
(8.94 MiB) Downloaded 5 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:42 pm

Well seeing the few mm distance between the crt and the face grid makes a big difference i have moved up the CRT face up to touch the back of the plastic grid pretty much any thing of a nice size can be made out .
Made a little video of the set up messy as it is still circuit boards not all in place yet lid of the flying spot camera .
I made a few 64 line tests today i pretty much could do slide after slide where as before i had to choose them so the best ones could be made out ...now as long as the subject is large enough can make out them all even a 16mm slide worked i might make the raster to the size of one as it would scan better that way still it worked as is .

youtu.be/HZRS2q-hMyM


youtu.be/sHgsSACKEq0
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Robonz » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:03 pm

Great job Harry , it looks like you have the sync rock solid. What did you do to fix that? Is there more focus you can get out of that? It looks like its almost there or is that a limitation you already know about.

Cheers
Keith
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:50 pm

Robonz wrote:Great job Harry , it looks like you have the sync rock solid. What did you do to fix that? Is there more focus you can get out of that? It looks like its almost there or is that a limitation you already know about.

Cheers
Keith


Hi Keith
Similar to this circuit the 10 meg was to high causing drift i lowered that a few megs and i have a cap trimmer across one of the 22pf i now have control to fine tune it ...i spent a morning changing the parts studying how much it was drifting watching my line sync plus what was causing it what would fix it ,it seems fine now ...first time i have ever had a problem with a 4060 crystal oscillator ..i noticed temperature touching the crystal would change its frequency a bit ...might just be the make of it least its working now .
Yes i was just chatting to Richard labguy hes suggested projecting the raster via lens to the slides ,its something i was planning on doing for projecting the raster to and off an image /photo but doing this would work also ...
If the slide is directly on the CRT is very good but i didn't want to remove the panel for this so i moved the crt to touch the plastic grid still there's perhaps 2mm and the slide is in a cardboard holder another 2mm perhaps so results of that were in the youtube video ..i will take on Richards suggestion and build something to do this ,i should be able to get a little more out of it focus wise .... also sizing the scope raster to the slide does help too .
There is that limit as in using 32 and 64 line as far as clarity but really scanning the slides like this would be the same as if it were a 32 or 64 line camera pointing at the subject at that distance i will play around some more and see if i can do better ...i tried a 16mm slide and that worked also i have to see if i can reduce the raster to that size to scan it correctly who knows might be able to do 8 mm.... :?:
Attachments
download (1).jpg
download (1).jpg (9.76 KiB) Viewed 302 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:09 am

I ended making something to focus the scope raster for the slides and also added a lens for projection to try a true flying spot camera idea .
The focusing of the scope raster to the side i didn't get an improvement and tried the projection lens and that worked have a few results here in the you tube video only problem i forgot the lens turns the raster up side down so i could fix this quick with the bobble head and the hulk toy just turning it up side down ,but i tried me so i am up side down in the last video ..
BTW last video in the first you tube video is a mistake i was thinking it was my flying spot test where its a speeded up version of a nipkow camera from last year test...sorry about that ...real flying spot me test last you tube video .
Due to the lack of space on my table and power connection cable length i could turn the PMT camera around correctly well not yet but it was good enough as is to pick up the projected raster ...here are 32 line tests

youtu.be/css2CKlDTbU

youtu.be/2PJtT5cO3FA
Attachments
IMG_0097.JPG
IMG_0097.JPG (164.89 KiB) Viewed 293 times
IMG_0102.JPG
IMG_0102.JPG (229.94 KiB) Viewed 293 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:24 pm

More tests tonight i worked out focus to distance the lens i picked is pretty good for the distance i want ...
The PMT voltage here in the 2 32 line and one 64 line test videos its running at 660 volts negative for these night experiments .
And yes i am still upside down but all in frame this time not so zoomed in getting the hang of this flying spot thing .

youtu.be/FAAMeDLrPV8
Attachments
IMG_0108.JPG
IMG_0108.JPG (204.27 KiB) Viewed 284 times
IMG_0107.JPG
IMG_0107.JPG (198.25 KiB) Viewed 284 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:15 am

Day four of my testing i have finally closed my PMT camera case no real need for circuit adjustments for it works well enough now as is .
I had the problem of the projection lens turning the image upside down so i put in a double pole switch for the out puts of the line DAC that worked but not for the software to view or play back it could be becuase i am also using this area to get my sync pulses to my monstable it more than likely needs its inputs swapped as well on the inverting ..you will see that in the video what i just mentioned .
Any case there's a bit of light loss if i used another lens to turn the image around again so i just turned the scope upside down for now :lol:
The you tube video has a bit of 32 and 64 line again right side up this time didn't come out to bad my other son William helped me a bit in these as well ,last video at the end is a very distorted me had the lens to close to me and the raster very strange effects .




youtu.be/3a2diHwDoeU
Attachments
IMG_0121.JPG
IMG_0121.JPG (186.74 KiB) Viewed 273 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Robonz » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:35 am

Well done Harry it looks like you have got the electronics nailed. I am not 100% sure but I think looking at the projection optics might be a good thing to do here. I think the depth of focus could be better if you used two plano convex lenses arranged in condenser configuration. Easier said than done, though.

Cheers
Keith
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Re: TRIO CO-1303D

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:16 am

Robonz wrote:Well done Harry it looks like you have got the electronics nailed. I am not 100% sure but I think looking at the projection optics might be a good thing to do here. I think the depth of focus could be better if you used two plano convex lenses arranged in condenser configuration. Easier said than done, though.

Cheers
Keith


I will look into that Keith for sure in case i missed something ,when i was picking a lens or lens system i notice how much light was lost using 2 lens or so in a slide projector lens which i at first planed to use ...
The raster light levels are very low you sort of fade away into the snow of 32 or 64 line static if you move away to far that's why i went with best single lens i could find .
i will get around to using the brighter scopes in the shed ,but this little trio scope has done well i would never have thought it was bright enough for the job its pretty much running flat out brightness wise .
I need to look into my inverter instead of the bench deadly 50 hz power supply so i can fine tune the PMT voltage ...and finish of the Thylacine monitor so i can view display the higher line rates .
So there will a bit of swapping the the Thylacine soon .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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