Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

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Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:29 pm

Thanks to Histoire de la télévision site replying to a message
They have Tracked down the 28 of feb 1891 Scientific American issue
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id= ... up;seq=151
i was hoping there would be a mention of something constructed but seems still to be all theory working out problems of the system and spent years thinking about it ...you would think something part of it would of been made to try .
Any case its interesting reading he's description of the Telephane Telephany ?
At the end of this he forgets Nipkows name ? I suppose in those days all the information was in scientific magazines no index only memory :wink:
https://www.histv.net/la-telephanie-d-henry-sutton
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coo.31924071607364-151-1519799391.pdf
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

Postby Dave Moll » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:51 pm

I must admit that I had to do a double-take at that name.

What a shame that "telephany" is so similar to "telephony". Otherwise, it would have been a far better name than "television" with its mixture of Greek and Latin.
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Re: Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:51 pm

Dave Moll wrote:I must admit that I had to do a double-take at that name.

What a shame that "telephany" is so similar to "telephony". Otherwise, it would have been a far better name than "television" with its mixture of Greek and Latin.

Nipkow and others around the time called the idea The electric telescope ..its interesting its always had the Tele part of it in some form...so is Tele part Greek and vision Latin ?
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

Postby Dave Moll » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:52 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:Nipkow and others around the time called the idea The electric telescope ..its interesting its always had the Tele part of it in some form...so is Tele part Greek and vision Latin ?


Little did they know how "electric" the telescope (in its accepted sense) would become by the 21st century!

You are correct that "tele-" comes from Greek (meaning "far") and "vision" comes from Latin. Wikipedia has this to say about it. The trouble is that the obvious Greek candidate, σκοπειν (skopein - to look), for the second part had already been used and φανειν (phanein - to show) is too easily confused with φωνειν (phonein - to speak).
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Re: Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 pm

Dave Moll wrote:
Little did they know how "electric" the telescope (in its accepted sense) would become by the 21st century!


Yes Dave its amazing they wanted to do it but just to early but not with Henry Sutton that didn't stop him .

youtu.be/LFDMKvDFTag

What i really would love to know is if Henry got around to experimenting with hes idea ,reading here in this Thursday dec 29 1887 news paper it was reported in here he has yet to contruct the telephane.
Other searchs i have made come up with Mr R.L.J. Ellery Government Astronomer of Victoria was witness to the transmission of the images of the Telephane. In 1885 Henry transmitted the Melbourne Cup race to Ballarat through the Telephane. It was stated that it worked quite well. ...well the dates are wrong for a start as it would of been reported in the 1887 newspaper in this pdf .
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... chLimits=#
Link to hes other inventions
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
Also '
Henry a few years later in 1890 went to England and France and demonstrated the Telephane to the scientific community.
While in England, Henry met Nikola Tesla and attended his lecture on Alternating Current at the British Institute. Tesla became interested in Henry’s method for transmitting pictures, by which he had successfully transmitted a still image in Australia before he had travelled to England.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
Henry's paper on the Telephane was published in England, France and America and Scientific America republished his paper again in 1910.
Well we know it ended up in Scientific America....but demonstrated ? more research .
Rather concerning he died at 57 my age
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... nry+Sutton
Henry Sutton: Personal Timeline.



1851: Gold is discovered at Ballarat, Australia.

1853: H.R. Sutton and his wife, Mary, immigrate from Manchester (U.K.) to the Ballarat goldfields.

1854: H.R. Sutton makes a concertina to keep himself entertained at night on the goldfields. He ends up entertaining the other miners and makes some more concertinas for friends. Mary, his wife, convinces him to buy a dray-load of instruments from Melbourne which they sell on the goldfields. This marks the beginning of the Sutton Music Emporium.

1856: On the 3rd of September, Mary gives birth to Henry.

1866: A ten year-old Henry writes a paper on the theory of the flight of birds after observing the flutter of insect wings against smoked glass. It is published 12 years later by the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain in their 1878 annual report.

1870: After a three year period, Henry has read every scientific book in the Ballarat Mechanic Institute’s library. In the same year he designs and builds an ‘ornithopter’: a clockwork flying machine. These are the first flight experiments conducted in Australia using heavier-than-air materials.

1870: Henry designs an electric continuous current dynamo with a practical ring armature. A similar device had been invented by the Italian, Antonio Pacinotti on the 10th January 1859.

1871: Z.T. Gramme, a Belgian inventor, shows his improved version of Pacinotti’s invention to the French Academy of Sciences. It is known as the Gramme dynamo and uses the same design principles as Henry’s device. History records Gramme as being the father of the electrical power industry.

1875: The Reverend John Kerr, a Scottish university lecturer, invents the Kerr cell and publishes a paper on what becomes known as the Kerr effect.

1876: H.R. Sutton dies. Suttons Music Emporium is now run by Henry’s mother and brothers with 19 year-old Alfred as manager.

1876: Alexander Graham Bell receives his patent for the telephone (7th March 1876). Henry reads a brief article on Bell’s invention and within twelve months he designs and builds twenty different versions. Some of them are installed in the music emporium. Sixteen out of twenty of Henry’s designs are patented by others.

1877: At the request of F.W. Brearey Hon. Sec., Henry submits two papers to the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain. They are titled ‘On the Flight of Birds and Aerial Navigation’ and ‘Second Paper on the Flight of Birds’.

1878: Both of henry’s papers on bird flight are published in the Aeronautical Society of Great Britain’s 1878 annual report.

1879: Thomas Edison invents the carbon lamp.

1880: Henry, working independently from Edison, develops a carbon lamp. The Victorian Government Astronomer, R.L.J. Ellery, verifies the success of Henry’s work.

1881:

· Henry marries Elizabeth Ellen Wyatt.

· By now Henry has invented a colour printing process, a torpedo, and a telegraph facsimile.

· Royal Society of Victoria. Transactions and Proceedings, 18 (1881), publish Henry’s article on ‘A New Form of Secondary Cell for Electrical Storage’.

· Royal Society of Victoria. Transactions and Proceedings, 18 (1881), publish Henry’s article on ‘Description of a Vacuum Apparatus’.

· In December Henry’s paper on ‘A Type of Lead Storage Battery’ is read before the Royal Society of London.

1882: The details of Henry’s Mercury Air Pump are published in English Mechanic and World of Science, 21st July 1882, and are recommended to be used in the manufacture of light bulbs.

1883: henry begins to lecture at the Ballarat School of Mines in the field of Electricity and Applied Magnetism. He continues to lecture there until 1887.

1884:

· Alfred opens a Sutton’s Music Store in Elizabeth Street, Melbourne.

· The music firm becomes known as ‘The Sutton Brothers’.

· The four brothers form a private company ‘Suttons Pty Ltd’.

· Paul Nipkow, an Austrian engineering student, invents the Nipkow Disc. This carefully perforated disc allows for the electronic scanning of a moving image at the rate of ten images per second.

1885: According to W.B. Withers of Ballarat, Henry designs the Telephane. This is a method of transmitting moving pictures over great distances. It uses Nicol prisms, Nipkow discs and a Kerr cell in its design and relies on the telegraph wire as its mode of transmission.

1886: Henry is granted a patent for ‘Improvements in Electrical Circuits for Telephonic Purposes’ (Victoria).

1887:

· Henry is granted a patent for ‘An Improved Process of Converting a Photographic Image on a Gelatine Surface into a Relief or Intaglio Printing Surface (New South Wales and Victoria).

· In New South Wales, Henry also applied for a patent for ‘Explosion Engines’.

1890: Henry submits a paper that details the workings of his ‘Telephane’. It is published in both The Telegraphic Journal and Electrical Review, 7th November 1890 and La Lumiere Electrique. Paris, 13 December 1890.

1900-02: Henry builds several motor cars with carburettors of his own design. At one point, he teams up with the Austral Otis Company to go into manufacture.

1902: Henry marries Annie May Patti.

1903: At a meeting of fifty-five motorist at the Port Phillip Club, 9th December 1903, Henry moves the resolution that founds the Automobile Club of Victoria.

1912: Henry Sutton dies from heart failure and chronic nephritis (28th July 1912). He is buried at Brighton Cemetery and is survived by his second wife, their two sons and two sons from his first marriage. He leaves property worth nine thousand, nine hundred and eighty four pounds.
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

Postby Andrew Davie » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:06 am

A short note from Sutton's biographer Lorayne Branch...

"Funny debate about the name the same thing happened when Henry's paper was first published. You can let the guys know that soon all their questions will be answered, the book has now been professionally edited and is getting closer to being printed, book cover design has been completed and the book layout and design is underway. I will need to get some more donations to get it printed but I am hopeful it will be soon. There are a few other things you and the guys will be very interested in that will be coming up but at the moment it is confidential. I will let you know when they can be public..."
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Re: Henry Sutton explains his system of of Telephany

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:26 am

Andrew Davie wrote:A short note from Sutton's biographer Lorayne Branch...

"Funny debate about the name the same thing happened when Henry's paper was first published. You can let the guys know that soon all their questions will be answered, the book has now been professionally edited and is getting closer to being printed, book cover design has been completed and the book layout and design is underway. I will need to get some more donations to get it printed but I am hopeful it will be soon. There are a few other things you and the guys will be very interested in that will be coming up but at the moment it is confidential. I will let you know when they can be public..."


Yes that is interesting Andrew and Lorayne any extra information would be great sounds like we will have to wait a bit .
The newspaper reports show he had a wide interest in things ...i found hes light transmitter very interesting and wondered what came first he's or bells since they both did meet who gave who the idea ? or was it again both independent inventions .
On the Telephane Telephany we know the device was not made in 1885 or 1887 so the Melbourne cup transmitting report for 1885 is out ,going to europe in 1890 to discuss it is more possible that he might have made some thing to bring and show but unless there are papers here or in France and or England on this lecture he did we will never know how far it went ...
There might of also been some confusion on hes still image transmitter and the Telephane on those earlier reports from other researchers ,dates and such have to match up .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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RETURN OF A BALLARAT INVENTOR. AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW.

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:01 pm

Here's the event before and an interview after returning to Ballarat from England 1880 1893 chatting about he's 3 year trip.
Reading how much they appreciated and were proud of him its amazing how he was forgotten for so long ...in Australia if you don't kick a football your not a hero is my answer to that !
Read to the left rather than the clipping much easier .
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... rchLimits=
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... rchLimits=
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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Electronics today feb 1989

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:09 pm

I tracked down a minor bit on Henry Sutton from ETI magazine there's another earlier issue i still have to find that has 3 or 4 pages on the Telephane ..be nice to find it .
Attachments
IMG_20180303_0005.jpg
IMG_20180303_0007.jpg
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
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