Potato sprinkle recording

[Harry Dalek]

Leaping ahead...my concern at this point would be the degree of drag you're gonna get with the head-to-wire contact and whether the motor is up to it (enough torque) without losing step. This is definitely uncharted waters for me.

Me to ...well i suppose its one of those things never know till you try and i will try ...i was thinking of using a hall effect sensor and amplifying that little bugger if it can detect the small amount on the wire which i just got today so will be winding the little drum to night.

A test might be to see if the sensor can detect any thing on a cassette tape swipe if not i could either pinch a head off something or make one .

With a conventional wire-recorder the wire just 'kisses' the head(s) at a shallow angle inducing very little drag

I was planning on just close as i can get but i suppose as with all the magnetic things the wear on tapes would be due to having to wipe against the head and all the rollers and things .

Thanks btw for the booklet post i was just reading it .I think i have a few of the other subjects of this booklet type but didn't have that one .

. This may be very different. I'm not trying to put a negative spin on this, just trying to think ahead as I do have an interest in this. Analogue magnetic media has been part of my family for three generations, particularly magnetic striping of movie films. Sadly it has all but vanished, in all its forms.

Magnetic recording device not something i have ever tried to make since its still easy to get one form or another but i think its worth a go just for the fun factor...

Sad its going this way i think my tapes will out live all my dvds and cds ..one scratch and you loose the lot least with a tape part can be saved....i have video discs the early LP size type i wonder if part of this analog disk was scratched the rest would still play ..i don't think optical storage is a good thing...every thing will stop working or be damaged in time but my money would be on magnetic storage lasting longer .

Steve A.[/quote]

[Harry Dalek]

Just much better at 6 volts i have to always kick spin it to start at 12 volts and as i said either direction depending on my spin.

yep, but as I said, a series resistor is likely to improve things for 12v, but if it works as required there is no need to bother. What sort of torque are you getting? It should be quite high, but these floppy steppers aren't very strong really. I would expect that you would need something of the order of at least 30-50 oz-in

Yes some thing to try if it helps torque ...it seemed to have enough for what i want it to do head rubbing against it at worst ...i am just using a tiny dick smith 3 wire secondary transformer the smallest 240 volt ones your can buy good for digital display perhaps pushing it for this but it still works .

[Harry Dalek]

Ok a lot of thinking before moving on.

Working out the writing reading part to and from the drum i was not happy with having two Independent motors i had the right movements but syncing or i mean record play back would be harder if at all possible to work out so thats gone replaced by a large screw coming out the end middle of the drum as this turns this moves the long nut this moves the flat plates on the long bar so one motor does both just like the old days .

I tried to do the wire wrapping its a bit of pain i think i will try another idea for now till i work that out some reading up one fellow said hes wire was human hair thickness.

Have to do a timing test as it will show how much record time i have .

Anyway the hard part is over now a little more thinking .

[gary]

what sought of wire were you going to use Harry?

[Harry Dalek]

what sought of wire were you going to use Harry?

Hi Gary The smallest i could find so far 0.90mm i know i have some from some where thats a lot smaller but i have lost it ...

I was thinking the first system just used the wire as a way to move the head like on a phonograph along the wire screw tracks....i think

So the drum really could be all steel i think ? like a Hd plater as the track would be written right on mine due to the screw movement .

So i hope this is the case makes the idea easier

[gary]

Oh, I asked because I thought this was going to be a magnetic wire recorder and assumed the wire would need, well, at least good magnetic properties - I was just wondering what generally available wire would fit that bill - I was thinking of maybe guitar string wire if it could be obtained long enough. But it looks like I have confused what it is you are actually building?

[Harry Dalek]

Oh, I asked because I thought this was going to be a magnetic wire recorder and assumed the wire would need, well, at least good magnetic properties - I was just wondering what generally available wire would fit that bill - I was thinking of maybe guitar string wire if it could be obtained long enough. But it looks like I have confused what it is you are actually building?

Hi Gary Yes magnetic wire . Steel wire .

I have to go cheap do this as we know ..I want it to be a drum magnetic recorder as far as Wire recorder i am sort more interested in the drum type using a drum of wire or a fully steel or tin drum the second would be the better easier option...steel wire is very springy to wind i have found out ,i think i would have to glue every winding from the try on this wire the other day so have to look into this its more a matter of working it out neat .

[gary]

The drum is steel is it? That seems counter-intuitive.

edit: In fact I see the original was brass - that makes more sense to me.

edit 2: I said guitar string when it is obviously piano wire - I have been playing a keyboard too long...

[Harry Dalek]

The drum is steel is it? That seems counter-intuitive.

edit: In fact I see the original was brass - that makes more sense to me.

edit 2: I said guitar string when it is obviously piano wire - I have been playing a keyboard too long...

Hi Gary The original i was not sure what it was made of brass sounds right ..and yes piano wire sound right !.....
The guitar string is a good idea i don't think it comes in long enough lengths ...looking at 2 guitars my kids have the wire thickness is all different sizes to the notes i think ...i think they will notice if i pinch a string or two

Getting back to the first wire magnetic recorder i will have to look for the patent but i can only think the wire was there as much for tracking as some thing magnetic to record on i don't think it was a true to say wire recorder till was used on reels ..could be wrong have to research more .....

[gary]

Yes Harry, read the patent, I can't find anywhere where it specifies the material of the cylinder but the wire is definitely magnetic - I am curious though, why do you think otherwise, what do you think the method of recording was?

A quick summary is here:

http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/poulsen.html

I must admit the invention predates my recollection by some decades, I thought it was invented in Germany during the second world war!

[Harry Dalek]

Yes Harry, read the patent, I can't find anywhere where it specifies the material of the cylinder but the wire is definitely magnetic - I am curious though, why do you think otherwise, what do you think the method of recording was?

A quick summary is here:

http://web.mit.edu/invent/iow/poulsen.html

I must admit the invention predates my recollection by some decades, I thought it was invented in Germany during the second world war!

No think the wire is magnetic ! ....the drum could be any thing non magnetic brass as you think sounds right .
What i am saying is to write and read from a drum like this you need to track your magnetic recording 100% or you will be all over the place reason i dropped the 2 motor drum tracking idea ....
He had to have had a means to starting and keeping the recording on track ...2 ways gearing or a screw / having a quick read of this patent 1907 i think he used pulleys so i am thinking the wire is there also to keep the record play back head on track as it slides along the wire screw so the head is not skipping missing .I think its a magnetic version of a phonograph on the idea of a screw and the needle keeping it in the right place on the record...again i thinking don't know more reading harry !

Reason a big one i changed my idea ...when i was thinking about how to do it right .

[gary]

Yes I think I see what you are getting at now - it's interesting, looking at the patent, you would think the device would suffer from terrible crosstalk.

[Harry Dalek]

Yes I think I see what you are getting at now - it's interesting, looking at the patent, you would think the device would suffer from terrible crosstalk.

Thats the reason don't think its a true wire recorder just a drum wire screw ,he could of used a cylinder can of steel or tin .

Reading your post link

Poulsen's model used a brass cylinder embedded in grooves, which would move along a wire attached to the grooves, like a trolley

I think this means it used the wire screw idea to keep it on track .

Well a hard drive plater is used to write on uses sensors and electronics to keep it on track ..i think mine would do the same thing on my drum no matter what magnetic stuff i use on the drum ..thats the reason i started to get ify about why do i need wire on the drum if i have a screw thats doing the same job ...controlling the writing reading to and from the drum with out needing that wire screw to do that .

Could just use it for the magnetic side but i am sure a can would work better.

[Harry Dalek]

Today i powered up the motor to see it all running and not to bad...i rather like the hand stop and its and reverse it would be nice to use this if i can either ends of the screw limit.

Heres a few pictures and a video

[Harry Dalek]

i have now worked out what i want the record on ,it was so tempting to use cut up video or audio tape for me i wanted it a little different ...
I retried the wire idea it super glues well but the wire even if you are careful gets a small kink init and its hard to get out when winding it and a kink means loss of signal and i did find it all pointless when a tin can would work better and no need for wire when the screw on my drum makes the writing track .

The tin can adjusted for size fits over PS Drum with a card board filler for a neat fit.

I am now thinking of a small amplifier and tossing up pinching a head from old scrapped player or making my own .

Heres link to a 1945 wire recorder wire recorder in modern mechanix.
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/sound-on ... l/2/#mmGal