Magnetic amplifier

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Magnetic amplifier

Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:06 pm

My last chat with Gary had me wondering if it were possible that the people trying to do television in the late 1880s could of made a working one with out electronics all failed because of no electronics for an amplifier ,the magnetic amplifier and diodes were there at the time late 1880s so it could of been done i think not an electronic television but an electric television.

The diode is the very first semiconductor and was about at the time so that makes it still possible .

Reading that the use of diodes increases the amplification with the transformer to a point where it might very well work.

The catch to magnetic amplifiers is they need AC to work so the frequency of the transformers need to be high enough to work for a television idea ,i think the link below hes circuit running at 35 khz should be ok for the video band width


http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-audio-amp/ ... io-amp.htm

Now this fellows very interesting experiments with magnetic amplifiers show some nice examples.

The generating of the AC frequency would have to be made mechanically i think for the time.

Reading about the magnetic amplifier if the valves were not invented when they were perhaps the electric radio and television might of come about.

When i have time i wouldn't mind playing around with the idea.
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Steve Anderson » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:05 pm

Somewhere (in a book I can visualize, but can't access for the next few weeks) are entire chapters devoted to magnetic amplifiers. When it re-surfaces I'll scan the appropriate pages...

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Postby AncientBrit » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:52 pm

...and maybe hydraulic and pneumatic amplifiers?

Probably speed of operation might be a problem, but with modern materials and lightweight diaphragms who knows?

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Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:08 am

Interesting reading magnetic amplifiers are really a forgotten technology and something i knew nothing about.

What they can do and have been used in is amazing to me .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBX1-POuJMw
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Last edited by Harry Dalek on Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby DrZarkov » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:47 am

Member of this forum H.P. Friedrichs wrote a book about it: "Instruments of Amplification"
http://hpfriedrichs.com/mybooks/ioa/bks-ioa.htm

The book is available at Amazon.

Very interesting book!
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Postby AncientBrit » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:04 am

Dr Z.
I bought the book and can recommend it

Cheers,

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Postby DrZarkov » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:49 am

Yes, me too. Also I can recomend his other book: "The Voice of the Crystal".
I think I've got the recommendations from this forum a couple of years ago. :)
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Postby gary » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:55 am

For Australians interested in purchasing these books:

When I purchased these books non of the suppliers (including Amazon who are really just a "front" for the real store) would ship to Australia. I had to get a local book store affiliated with a US store to import them for me. I know for a fact that at the time he got at least another copy of the books in. So if you are interested I can look up which book store that was.


BTW Harry, I am almost certain that there was an article in a newsletter on magnetic amps, in fact I think that was where I became aware of them. It doesn't appear to be on the CD so it must have been in a later volume. Perhaps someone can remember it?


(Edit)

PS: Pete if you read this post - how's the new book coming along? I'm getting withdrawal symptoms. ;-)
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Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:52 pm

Great link Dr Z i like those triodes with the control grids on the out side and home made electronic parts.

Well Gary i was hoping some type of magnetic amplifier might work little did i know it was really the first type of amplifier and had a long history reading about them they are as good as a valve and in some ways better .....
You got it via the newsletter any one know if someone made one using the idea ...... me via you i don't understand why its little known having about 20 years of collecting electronic magazines i have either missed this or its wasn't discussed like learning about the transistor for the first time.
Seeing the you tube video on a amplifier test of the high frequency version i can see the Electric radio is invented even it it wasn't in the past apart from i am not sure what he used for the AC was that electronic oscillator .

To do an electric NBTV version i hope there would not be a problem apart from doing the clock for the magnetic amplifiers .

That would be the first step i think..... I would be thinking of a DC motor perhaps hooked up to a stepper for the ac but not sure what speeds would be needed if it would work ,or is that cheating didn't have steppers in the 1880s!
Perhaps a hole encoder wheel of some sort with a light sensor LDR or magnetic idea ...

Did the past television inventors experimenters know they needed amplifiers it doesn't seem so worse for them they had it but didn't use it but i like the idea of what if .
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Postby Viewmaster » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:46 pm

The germans used a magnetic amplifier in their V2 rockets in World War two, one of which exploded near to me in London in the blitz.

The German navy also used the magnetic amplifier in fire control systems, the air force too.

Amazing what one can read on the net.
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Postby Viewmaster » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:09 pm

In the 1920's there was another method of amplification used in wireless receivers without using any valves.

From my collection here are some piccy's of the S.G. Brown mechanical amplifier.
A weak wireless signal is applied to coils which cause an iron reed to vibrate. This impinged on a carbon microphone energised with a battery.
So the current flowing in the microphone was greater than the original wireless signal and could now operate a loudspeaker.
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Postby Steve Anderson » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:32 pm

I retrieved said book from storage today, I found it far quicker than I thought. The chapter on magnetic amplifiers is some 24 pages of around A5 size (some old imperial size I guess). This second edition is dated 1958, first edition was 1953.

Now I just need to fire up the scanner...

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Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:12 pm

Oh great Steve I would like to see any thing on them ,theres a bit on the net but thing new would be good to see .

Albert that Brown mechanical amplifier is new to me as well ! wonder if it was used as an idea for the crystal earphone but that needs voltage to work very interesting but thanks for showing us !

Magnetic amplifiers used in the v2 rockets i always wondered if they had valves in side sounds like not...... i was reading the Americans invented the magnetic amplifier but the Germans perfected it ....
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Steve Anderson » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:41 pm

'ere 'tis...

"Principles of Electronics" by H. Buckingham & E. M. Price, second edition 1958. Chapter XIX "Magnetic Amplifiers". Pre-ISBN days.

It's excellent bed-time reading....

Attached is a scan of the contents, if anyone is interested in other chapters, you just have to ask....

Steve A.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:25 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:'ere 'tis...

"Principles of Electronics" by H. Buckingham & E. M. Price, second edition 1958. Chapter XIX "Magnetic Amplifiers". Pre-ISBN days.

It's excellent bed-time reading....

Attached is a scan of the contents, if anyone is interested in other chapters, you just have to ask....

Steve A.


Interesting page 346 seems at the time a Audio amplifier had a 10khz limit using them .
The You tube one was at 35khz so that records been broken.
Thanks for scanning Steve
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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