I am Saticon

Forum for discussion of electronic television. Generally, stuff to do with CRTs and not using mechanical displays.

I am Saticon

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:46 pm

The new Project converting late image tube model saticon tube into a NBTV camera ...
The idea has come from looking at Aussiebloke Troys B/w 625 line home made camera and the also amazing I am a Iconoscope video...so i have some thing to study for a start more so on Troys camera .

I have no real interest in making a 625 line one but NBTV is another story .

I do have a few scrapped vidicon types 80s and for a start i want to see if the saticon can work as a B/w camera ..

Worst case you could stick a Nipkow disk in front of it and use it as a very complex solar cell...but i am seeing if i can do it all electronic..

The saticon has something over the other types and it is its electro static focused and very small and really the only one i have found information on its workings.

I don't think i could even think of trying this out without the work and help from gary on the last mechanical camera so i am doing a bit of jump here and giviong it a go .

Most of the hard work has been done for me as far as schematics and i just have to change a few things for NBTV standards at the moment i am working on the power supply ...well it will be interesting to see what happens with a bit of luck cameras might be my thing

:wink:
Attachments
Picture 029.jpg
The saticon
Picture 029.jpg (124.4 KiB) Viewed 11818 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby AncientBrit » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 pm

If you are talking about a 400Hx/12.5Hz directly scanned saticon camera I built one may moons ago.

I wrote it up for the Newsletter.

I found I had to electronically defocus the image since the electon beam was too narrow to fully discharge the scanned raster producing the usual "watering" effect.

Another problem I had with this particular tube was it was(is) very laggy.

Regards,

Graham
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Postby gary » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:17 pm

LOL nothing new in NBTV...
gary
 

Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:01 am

AncientBrit wrote:If you are talking about a 400Hx/12.5Hz directly scanned saticon camera I built one may moons ago.

I wrote it up for the Newsletter.

I found I had to electronically defocus the image since the electon beam was too narrow to fully discharge the scanned raster producing the usual "watering" effect.

Another problem I had with this particular tube was it was(is) very laggy.

Regards,

Graham



Hi graham which newsletter number ?
I plan on changing a few things on troys project but would be nice to read about your project ...
yes i agree on the defocus need that line thicker i am keen to try it on 60 line twice as thin ? any case still working on it i have finished the power supply ...looking at the clocks for it ...i find the no mechanical part a little easier this time around .
The saticon is not really laggy tube like the older vidicons ,but we will see
i have a few scrapped image tubes i wanted to try but went for this newer one if you can call that new one of the last generation camcorder types .
I have never tried or played around with these little beasts before i will see or try if its easier than a mechanical system and try i will .

Edit !

newsletter 22 2 gaham lewis ?

Thats amazing you used a saticon as well they are laggy then.i will have a good read of your project .
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:08 am

gary wrote:LOL nothing new in NBTV...


Yes its all been done perhaps not 100% the same but nice to try and follow in the foot steps of Gary and Graham ! :wink:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby gary » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:16 am

harry dalek wrote: follow in the foot steps of .... Graham ! :wink:


and Baird! :-) (maybe in this case Zworykin)

If I see further 'tis because I stand on the shoulders of giants...

Sir Isaac Newton...
gary
 

Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:40 am

gary wrote:
harry dalek wrote: follow in the foot steps of .... Graham ! :wink:


and Baird! :-) (maybe in this case Zworykin)

If I see further 'tis because I stand on the shoulders of giants...

Sir Isaac Newton...


Arrrrr Yes ....for sure

But its nice to be able to talk to the new generation :wink:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby AncientBrit » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:16 am

I don't have copies to hand but I'm sure that's the issue Harry.

I don't think anyone else published a similiar project recently in the newsletter.

Cheers,

Graham
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Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:46 pm

AncientBrit wrote:I don't have copies to hand but I'm sure that's the issue Harry.

I don't think anyone else published a similiar project recently in the newsletter.

Cheers,

Graham


Hi Graham i saw you used a Saticon was it because the size ...i went for it not so much because i had it i have others but seemed to me to be one of the best vidicons .
I understand now what you mean about the video lag at slowed down NBTV rates reading your project ,did you try speeding it up to 60 line ? that might of helped...i am happy you can use it for what i want it for i was hoping it could be used for NBTV so thats good ...back to the soldering iron :arrow:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby AncientBrit » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:35 pm

Hi Harry,

The challenge was to see if I could originate 400/12.5Hz pix directly from a pickup tube.

I didn't try any faster scan rates. I was only interested in standard NBTV.

Any other rates would require a standards converter.
If you are going to go down that road you might as well down-convert from a small 625 CCD camera and in fact at one of the NBTV conventions I used such a process to record 400/12.5 pix onto a PC through the parallel port.

Cheers,

Graham
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Postby Harry Dalek » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:46 pm

The challenge was to see if I could originate 400/12.5Hz pix directly from a pickup tube.


Thats fair enough i could see that looking at the circuit it was a 32 line only.

Is there a picture of it in any issue .
i think the club should review some of these projects over the years for what it is its ...doesn't date for us they could do a few more cd or dvds on these old treasures .

I didn't try any faster scan rates. I was only interested in standard NBTV.


Yes thats ok i was thinking if i can get it going trying for 48 or 60 line.

Any other rates would require a standards converter.


i was thinking of using Garys Bigscreen live view for testing I will have to ask gary if it does 32 line only if so it will be 32 .


If you are going to go down that road you might as well down-convert from a small 625 CCD camera and in fact at one of the NBTV conventions I used such a process to record 400/12.5 pix onto a PC through the parallel port.


No i have no interest in that going down that road ,i just want to see if i can do it or try to make some thing like you did .
And your project has made it a lot more easier !
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby AncientBrit » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:25 pm

Hi Harry,

No pictures in the newsletter but I'll take a few and post them here.

Cheers,

Graham
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Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:49 pm

AncientBrit wrote:Hi Harry,

No pictures in the newsletter but I'll take a few and post them here.

Cheers,

Graham


That would be great graham i am very happy to hear its still around !
There must be so many projects hidden away that would be of interest still.
Yes i for one would love to see some snaps !
I have drawn a ruff version of the power supply i want to try ...i used The circuit troy used in hes and changed it a bit for my use i saw i was a bit off looking at yours Graham ..so i am sort of around the right ball park with them ...
So looking at the circuit from troys web site its easier to work out than my messy schematic .
I was meaning to ask about the heater voltage you using 5 volts i think (the old news letters hard to read at times ) my data uses the 6.3 but must not matter ?.
Attachments
Picture 034.jpg
The circuit i have made
Picture 034.jpg (356.33 KiB) Viewed 11691 times
Screen 00000.jpg
Vidicon power supply i started off with
Screen 00000.jpg (160.65 KiB) Viewed 11691 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Postby AncientBrit » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:33 pm

Harry,

I'll look up my circuit for heater volts.

Better to be safe than sorry, apply only 5v if you are not sure.
Use a dropper resistor.
If you are really sure it's 6.3 v then apply the full 6.3v

My tube was a sub miniature one manufactured with colour stripes on the faceplate (Bayer pattern?) so it could be used as a colour pickup.

The pitch is so fine that in my monochrome 32 line use the stripes are not visible or used.

Watch your fingers with transformer derived high voltages, they are dangerous!!

Cheers,

Graham
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Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:23 pm

AncientBrit wrote:Harry,

I'll look up my circuit for heater volts.

Better to be safe than sorry, apply only 5v if you are not sure.
Use a dropper resistor.
If you are really sure it's 6.3 v then apply the full 6.3v


Thats something i am not 100% sure of all the data on these i have say 6.3 but 5 volts does sound like a good start i am also bit ify on having a trimmer on the Lm317 i am tossing up sticking with it with a fixed resistor or just swapping with a 7805.

My tube was a sub miniature one manufactured with colour stripes on the faceplate (Bayer pattern?) so it could be used as a colour pickup.


Was yours from a scrapped camera ,to me back then it must of been near on new .
I am not sure on the pattern i haven't had a good look at that looks to me
to have a burgundy colour look to it but i do think it has a patern to it i have been careful not to play around with it so put it away till i hook it up
.

The pitch is so fine that in my monochrome 32 line use the stripes are not visible or used.



Thats good ,i was wondering if the colour prism or what ever that thing is would cause a problem trying B/w with it .

You must be one of a few that have an all electronic one ,i have not read of another yet.

Watch your fingers with transformer derived high voltages, they are dangerous!!
[/quote]

Oh yes not good to be zapped !..i plan to run all these voltages via a multi cable i am thinking the 1250 volt one might be a problem it might jump wires another one for me to think about .
Attachments
Picture 030.jpg
Picture 030.jpg (113.01 KiB) Viewed 11679 times
Picture 028.jpg
Picture 028.jpg (107.25 KiB) Viewed 11679 times
Picture 031.jpg
Picture 031.jpg (225.52 KiB) Viewed 11679 times
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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