The videogram

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The videogram

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:29 pm

Heres an interesting video recording system that didn't go any where but worked....

http://www.historywebsite.co.uk/Museum/ ... /story.htm
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Re: The videogram

Postby AncientBrit » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:11 am

Very interesting Harry,

I have to say I've never heard of that before.

Shame he couldn't profitably market it,

Cheers,

Graham
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Re: The videogram

Postby Steve Anderson » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:22 pm

Sometime in the early 70s I recall someone trying to develop a non-contact audio playback system. The same as the fundamental difference between a grooved LP record and an audio CD. It was based on the concept of a large piece of photographic print paper (monochrome) placed in intimate contact with the faceplate of a CRT (or perhaps via some optics). The raster on the CRT was modulated by the audio signal but was a spiral pattern not left-right/top-bottom.

The exposed paper was then processed and played back on something not too dissimilar to a turntable with the usual cartridge replaced by an optical reader. Given a large and accurate enough photocopier/printer - there's your mass distribution.

Whether it ever worked, I don't know. But you can see that the idea is almost the grandfather of the CD. I would presume at that time though analogue. I suspect the response of the paper and the gamma of the CRT could have led to mass distortion, but some pre-distortion might have helped - who knows?

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Re: The videogram

Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:34 pm

Hi Graham

Yes i find the different recording ideas fascinating !

I came across this as well ,i need to do a search on how this one worked being mechanical is interesting .

http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/lum-fong/lum-fong.html

Recording video on vinyl apart from bairds version you would think died with 30 line but looks like its been tried over and over sort of why i did a search if it was possible to take a video recording to its limits.

Looking into the Ted and visc systems again very intersting perhaps the very last of the mechanical video recording ideas apart from nbtvers of cause ! the visc disc was only at 300 rpm 700 rpm .

http://www.totalrewind.org/disc/disc_mec.htm

This brings me also to vinyl video....

Go to the listen to the image page ....they don't really explain the system but since the video is in audio range we can have a look at the wave form its more than likly childs play to gary ,i have known of this one for a few years but forgot about it till thinking of mechanical recording again ...

If it uses a normal record player the speed seems to slow perhaps its low def tv and that box is a system converter..

http://www.vinylvideo.com

A little off topic here but on this you tube video it shows how well the old analog laser disc is it works video wise any way still after a sound recording has been cut into it a dvd one scratch and its rubbish just wanted to share ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSD8g9eJ_io
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Re: The videogram

Postby Klaas Robers » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:37 am

One of the problems of these systems is that you want to make millions of copies of a disc for little money. That was a problem with (VHS) video tape, one has to record all the tapes that you want to distribute. That makes it expensive. The pressing or moulding of discs as is done with grammophone records, with CDs and DVDs is the key to success. I can't see that in the videogram. Making one disc that plays is one, but making the next 999 999 discs is something completely different.
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Re: The videogram

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:50 pm

Klaas Robers wrote:One of the problems of these systems is that you want to make millions of copies of a disc for little money. That was a problem with (VHS) video tape, one has to record all the tapes that you want to distribute. That makes it expensive. The pressing or moulding of discs as is done with grammophone records, with CDs and DVDs is the key to success. I can't see that in the videogram. Making one disc that plays is one, but making the next 999 999 discs is something completely different.



Hi Klaas

Yes i think on the videogram it seems a little complex for the market but i suppose a step forward to the 30s 40s audio message recorders they use to have .

Cost wise The Ted and Visc mechanical video records would have been a better idea but i think they just had players no recorders for the public ,the results were similar to VHS beta if they had a recorder would have been interesting to see what happened in the video wars then ....in Australia i can not recall a mechanical record video disc system may be that only played out in the Usa and Europe ?
Not bad quality in the you tube video of the TED system for a floppy record...
http://www.obsoletemedia.org/television ... onic-disc/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuLj_lE_uJM

http://www.tekkiepix.com/Mechanical%20v ... Baird.html

The Visc had a problem from the description here !
In 1978 Matsushita (Technics/Panasonic) re-invented TeD as a 12” rigid LP disc, called Visc. This achieved the apparently impossible, an hour of colour TV on each side. But the groove pitch was 2.3 microns, around 1/25th the pitch for a conventional LP. No pressing plant could have produced the discs.

I found a youtube video of vinylvideo looks perhaps 60 line to me or less...not sure i like there marketing ...but i like the idea of it could be fake send up but what you would expect from a record at that speed .

Arrr this explains it !

http://v2.nl/archive/works/vinylvideo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iur5WmP3UMI
Attachments
TeD_brochure.GIF
TeD_brochure.GIF (119.26 KiB) Viewed 4256 times
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teldec-1970.jpg (28.93 KiB) Viewed 4256 times
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The videogram

Postby AncientBrit » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:43 pm

Hi Harry,

Getting slightly off topic, in the late 60's I worked at the EVR (Electronic Video Recording) mastering plant at Basildon.
The domestic player used a capstan drive to run a 750ft Commag spool of 8.75mm wide film past a miniature near-UV FSS CRT.
The film was monochrome and had two optical tracks allowing two progs. to be replayed.
Alternatively one track could be encoded with a subcarrier containing a colour difference signal to provide colour playback of one prog. only.

Contact printing was used from a wide master negative to produce several prints in parallel which were then slit and reeled.
The supposed copyright advantage of playback-only proved the downfall with the arrival of VHS offering both playback and recording in the domestic environment.

Cheers,

Graham
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Re: The videogram

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:04 am

AncientBrit wrote:Hi Harry,

Getting slightly off topic, in the late 60's I worked at the EVR (Electronic Video Recording) mastering plant at Basildon.
The domestic player used a capstan drive to run a 750ft Commag spool of 8.75mm wide film past a miniature near-UV FSS CRT.
The film was monochrome and had two optical tracks allowing two progs. to be replayed.
Alternatively one track could be encoded with a subcarrier containing a colour difference signal to provide colour playback of one prog. only.

Contact printing was used from a wide master negative to produce several prints in parallel which were then slit and reeled.
The supposed copyright advantage of playback-only proved the downfall with the arrival of VHS offering both playback and recording in the domestic environment.

Cheers,

Graham


You had an interesting job there Graham ,i have not heard of that system ...only optical sound recorders /
That Uv crt could of made a nice sstv crt with some glow paint .
I suppose the reel to reel and u matic vcrs killed it off in the 70s
I found this on the cbs system which sounds like the one you worked on ....in a way i wonder why since it used film they didn't go the way of using super 8 or 16mm then they would of had the way to let people view home movies on their tv ..still a clever idea and a very early one .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB8zQWs89wU
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: The videogram

Postby AncientBrit » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:27 pm

Hi Harry,

Yes, that's the correct YouTube link,

Cheers,

Graham
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