Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Moderators: Steve Anderson, Dave Moll, Andrew Davie

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:38 am

Great results Troy ! another Anderson monitor is born and yes good to name the monitor where it came from Steve's mind ,a lot of crap out there on the net ,least you know if Steve puts some thing up we can trust it will work after which you want after all the building.... reason i mentioned this when we you were thinking of starting this project .

I can See this will be a keeper as with mine and a useful tool for future projects again Great construction Troy and a really Quick Build too. :mrgreen:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4089
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Steve Anderson » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:34 pm

Good result there Troy, well done.

As I've mentioned before it can be adjusted to cater for other types of electrostatic CRTs. Those with a PDA (Post Deflection Accelerator) require a few kV from the power supply. Either an inverter or some form of voltage multiplier is required - the current requirement is small though. These CRTs usually have a side-contact near the faceplate/screen.

If you have a magnetically deflected and/or focused tube I suggest getting in contact with Klaas Robers as he has far more experience with those devices.

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Panrock » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:17 am

Wow! That works really well. I'd like to add my congratulations too. :)

Steve O
Panrock
Green padded cells are quite homely.
 
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Sedgeberrow, England

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby aussie_bloke » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:18 pm

Thanks everyone for your positive comments, I am very glad the monitor is working good and will have so much fun with it! :)

I have now given the monitor that finishing touch of adding a front plate cover to give it that factory made look, I cut/grinded/drilled a piece of textured black scrap plastic to fit over the front and bolted it on and here is the finished product! :)

54.jpg
54.jpg (282.71 KiB) Viewed 3611 times

55.jpg
55.jpg (207.16 KiB) Viewed 3611 times

56.jpg
56.jpg (124.07 KiB) Viewed 3611 times

57.jpg
57.jpg (88.3 KiB) Viewed 3611 times

58.jpg
58.jpg (106.44 KiB) Viewed 3611 times

59.jpg
59.jpg (106.35 KiB) Viewed 3611 times


vid1.avi
(3.68 MiB) Downloaded 121 times

vid2.avi
(1.33 MiB) Downloaded 120 times


For a bit of experimentation I thought I'd make the monitor look like it's displaying a colour picture, so to achieve this I convert a colour picture to it's red, green and blue primary colour B&W channels, display each channel on the monitor one after the other and take a photograph of each, then in Photoshop tint each pic to its primary colour and add them on top of each other which results in nice accurately reproduced colour image as seen! :)

60.jpg
60.jpg (94.84 KiB) Viewed 3611 times

61.jpg
61.jpg (96.75 KiB) Viewed 3611 times


Lastly I showed my monitor to a veteran ham radio operator down the road from me who's teaching me ham radio and he was impressed and he gave me an ultra vintage 1940s/50s era Dumont 208-B oscilloscope which uses a larger 5BP1 tube, I fired it up and it is still working!!! :) As a future project I plan to restore it to perfectly functioning order and make it adaptable to be a video display without gutting the original oscilloscope electronics. But that's another story........ ;)
cro.jpg
cro.jpg (89.6 KiB) Viewed 3611 times
aussie_bloke
Just nod and pretend you understand me
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Steve Anderson » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:04 pm

Very nice finishing which I tend to never get around to...

As for the vintage 5BPI 'scope, there's not a lot you need to do. It largely depends on what facilities it already has or doesn't. For NBTV ideally it would have an external X-input which is DC-coupled (most unlikely), a DC-coupled Y-input (normal vertical) and likewise a Z-input (brilliance - also most unlikely).

Depending on how original you wish to preserve the device these can be catered for. You'll also need a small NBTV 'adapter box' which would contain the NBTV-specifics, like ramp generators, sync separators etc...but that's all quite simple.

If you have model/make info I may have it already unless you have soft copies of the same.

Steve A.

Just noticed, Dumont 208-B...I'll have a dig...

No success on data for this, unless you don't mind parting with US$20-30...
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby aussie_bloke » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:11 pm

aussie_bloke
Just nod and pretend you understand me
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Steve Anderson » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:19 pm

Looking good Troy. I guess when I have the time I need to generate more test material, not just test-cards, but 'proper' videos. That requires me to complete the 625-32 converter. Though those with an Aurora converter could do it for you. Completion of the 625-32 converter is one of those things I hope by mid-December when I return home I'll be able to do.

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby aussie_bloke » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:55 pm

I thought I'd do an official off the screen video of my 3BP1 NBTV monitor displaying pictures for everyone's enjoyment, have chose to capture the screen using a vintage 1979 Hanimex VC600-P colour vidicon tube camera as the lag characteristics of the vidicon is perfect to compensate for much of the flicker and record a more viewable picture without frame breakup like on a CCD camera. Anyhow I've done a 12 min video compile of various test patterns, pictures and videos and webcam and uploaded it here on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pAROwaxT9A
aussie_bloke
Just nod and pretend you understand me
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Steve Anderson » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:10 pm

Hi Troy, a generally good result in that video.

However, I'm wondering if you've got some hum in the deflection amp power supply which may explain the slightly uneven line-spacing. In some scenes it tends to stand still, in others it tends to wander usually to the left. This would probably be caused by the slight wandering of the phase difference between the 50Hz supply and the 12.5Hz NBTV frame rate.

If you have more than enough gain in the deflection amps it may be worth trying an additional stage of PSU filtering for just these circuits. Let me think on this a while...

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby aussie_bloke » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:57 pm

Happy new year NBTVers hope you all had a great one! :)

ny1.jpg
ny1.jpg (489.93 KiB) Viewed 3225 times

ny2.jpg
ny2.jpg (506.2 KiB) Viewed 3225 times

ny3.jpg
ny3.jpg (328.53 KiB) Viewed 3225 times


Thought I'd display some new years graphics on my 3BP1 :) and those photos I actually shot on a vintage roll of Kodak Kodacolor X (expiry date 1972) which can be seen in full size on my Flickr page https://www.flickr.com/photos/51853869@ ... 8561896775 . I also took another photo on another roll of same vintage some weeks earlier:

nbc.jpg
nbc.jpg (346.19 KiB) Viewed 3225 times


Thanks for pointing out some issues of my monitor Steve, I noticed the uneven spacing but didn't think too much of it as I didn't expect my monitor to be perfect, anyhow will experiment with additional filtering sometime down the track but for now am happy enough to play around with the monitor as it is despite the uneven spacing.

Some more news with the monitor, I decided to add sound so I bought a cheap $10 Jaycar 0.5W amp circuit kit and whacked it together and added an 8 ohm speaker and mounted it into a separate little plastic enclosure and so now I have picture and sound. Was going to place the speaker inside the monitor but decided against it for the obvious reason it magnetically affects the tube's beam. Anyhow here's a picture and a video:

68.jpg
68.jpg (302.37 KiB) Viewed 3225 times


speaker.avi
(2.66 MiB) Downloaded 105 times
aussie_bloke
Just nod and pretend you understand me
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Steve Anderson » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:09 pm

Yep, speakers, transformers, anything with a magnetic field can (and usually will) upset a CRT. However, those used in multi-media/PC speakers are usually shielded to some extent. Those pulled from old CRT TVs/monitors will probably be shielded too.

Steve A.
User avatar
Steve Anderson
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 3843
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:54 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Klaas Robers » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:55 am

It is quite simple.

Try to stick a screw driver to the magnet. If it is atracted the magnet is not shielded. If the screwdriver is (almost) not atracted by the "magnet" it is shielded. I also have a shielded loudspeaker built in my "Heathkit" SSTV monitor and I can't see any distortion in the scanned picture.
User avatar
Klaas Robers
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1453
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:42 pm
Location: Valkenswaard, the Netherlands

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby aussie_bloke » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:43 am

G'day all. I have been doing more colour photography experimentation with my Anderson II monitor using the method of displaying individual RGB channel images of a colour image, photographing each one onto B&W film and after scanning the film tinting each shot their respective primary colours and combining them to reconstruct the colour image. I have made some nice colour displays using ultra vintage 1946 expired Kodak Fluorographic 35mm green sensitive X-Ray film to capture the images on display and here they are below:
color3gp1.jpg
color3gp1.jpg (1.35 MiB) Viewed 2978 times

The full sized images can be seen on my Flickr channel on this album page https://www.flickr.com/photos/51853869@ ... 9895959385

After showing Harry my colour experiments, he suggested I try seeing if I can make the green CRT produce a field/frame sequential colour image and suggested I stick red, green and blue filters in front of the screen to see if the luminance comes through the filters particularly the red filter. So I gave it a go using a lorikeet image as the test subject. I first stick the red filter in front of the screen displaying the red channel image, turning the monitor up till it almost clips I can see a dull red image, I took a snap of it with my camera phone. Then for the green, it made almost no difference obviously, so I photographed it without filter. Then placing the blue filter over the screen I could see a blue-green image, photographing it on the camera phone it looks green. In Photoshop I adjusted the lighting levels of each shot and added them together and the resultant image is a red-green colour picture due to the camera capturing the blue-green image as green. So I did a hue shift on that image and got a full RGB colour picture. :) . Here below are the images:
birda.jpg
birda.jpg (472.57 KiB) Viewed 2978 times


I think it would be quite possible to at least make a green CRT into a 2 colour field sequential monitor using a red filter and a blue filter and having the red channel image outputting very bright and the blue-green channel image outputting at a lower light level to match the brightness of the red picture. The blue filter over the green screen will give the blue-green image and the red filter pretty much filters out all the green amazingly. Anyhow some food for thought on making a green CRT display a colour image using the colour wheel method.
aussie_bloke
Just nod and pretend you understand me
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:10 pm

Yes Troy i am glad we had the chat about ,you have done a lot on colour wheels mechanical colour tv so you are the master of it here ...i have really only thought about it ! :roll:
The idea green phosphor CRT can be used with a colour wheel and display the other colours is pretty interesting ....and i would say you are the first to try it .
I will have to chat to you more as you have been able to do past colour experiments rather well and very simple .
This i understand is a photo at a time and over laying the images on the pc but i would think giving colour wheei a go now would be worth a shot ...and you would have your own colour tv system .
Heres a go at what it might look like with the limits of a animated gif
Attachments
anigif.gif
anigif.gif (18.31 KiB) Viewed 2961 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4089
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Postby Klaas Robers » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:59 am

Yes, this looks interesting. But it would look as if you had a oscilloscope tube with a white phosphor that you could make RGB. This is not true, because white phosphor is not white phosphor, but a mixture of blue and yellow. These two colours together give an impression of white, but there is almost no red in it and almost no green. So an R-G-B colour wheel will give a very poor colour rendering, especially in red and green. People will alway show yellowish faces and skins.

Besides that the colour repetition frequency of about 4 Hz is far too low to give your eye a mixture impression of red, green and blue. The already enoying flicker of 12.5 Hz will be 3 times as enoying.
User avatar
Klaas Robers
Frankenstein was my uncle.
 
Posts: 1453
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:42 pm
Location: Valkenswaard, the Netherlands

PreviousNext

Return to Building 3BP1 tube NBTV Anderson monitor II

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron