The Jeffree Cell

Centralised area for notes about construction projects. Each project has its own sub-forum. In the sub-forums will be topics relevant to parts of that project (e.g., there might be a topic on motor control). If you start a construction diary, just post in the forum with your project name as the topic, and a moderator will create a sub-forum for your project.

Moderators: Steve Anderson, Dave Moll, Andrew Davie

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby gary » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:19 pm

Very nice bit of experimenting Harry!
Last edited by gary on Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Perfecting an NBTV system is like trying to slam a revolving door...
User avatar
gary
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 2303
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Bundanoon, Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:56 pm

gary wrote:Very nice bit of experiment Harry!


I think i have to swap to a glass tube and hope the epoxy is less temperature sensitive ...PZT piezoelectric ceramic disk and even Quartz on the small scale shows heat is a problem after a while..... perhaps driving them much lower might fix it depends on whats needed .
I am not sure why but the PZT piezoelectric ceramic disk seems no better than a small quartz crystal with the valve Hartley oscillator seems to be 1.8mhz not 1.7 when i use that head scratching ~!
BTW Gary if you are interested in still making a Jeffree cell you are welcome to one of the WW2 crsytals if you want to go classic ! free of cause. :wink:
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby gary » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:41 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:
gary wrote:Very nice bit of experiment(ing) Harry!

I think i have to swap to a glass tube and hope the epoxy is less temperature sensitive ...PZT piezoelectric ceramic disk and even Quartz on the small scale shows heat is a problem after a while..... perhaps driving them much lower might fix it depends on whats needed .
I am not sure why but the PZT piezoelectric ceramic disk seems no better than a small quartz crystal with the valve Hartley oscillator seems to be 1.8mhz not 1.7 when i use that head scratching ~!
BTW Gary if you are interested in still making a Jeffree cell you are welcome to one of the WW2 crsytals with you want to go classic ! free of cause. :wink:


I am very interested Harry, all I have to do is get out from under this mountain of work I have to do. I am living vicariously through your posts at the moment but one day... So please keep going, I hope to join in with you one day.
Perfecting an NBTV system is like trying to slam a revolving door...
User avatar
gary
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 2303
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:29 am
Location: Bundanoon, Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:40 pm

I am very interested Harry, all I have to do is get out from under this mountain of work I have to do. I am living vicariously through your posts at the moment but one day... So please keep going, I hope to join in with you one day.


Just post me your address again dalekmoore2007@gmail.com
No PM here any more
I will keep at it still has my interest ..i would like to see you have a go when ever you can so a ww2 crystal would be in good hands ,i am just seeing how it go's with what i have handy if any thing least i can say i gave it a go.
just noticed we do have email message here in our Avatars ...thats good and easy
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:57 pm

Today i opened the WW2 crystal as i was thinking the top is screwed in but you have to remove some old hard putty to get at the brass screws.
IMG_0439.JPG

So opened it up and first look at it since some one made it in 1945.
IMG_0445.JPG

The crystal is held between 2 metal plates and that cured spring held to one side tight.
IMG_0446.JPG

I next looked at how i would get the crystal out with out braking it ..some pliers pulling the curved spring slowly i found was wise ...it comes out rather quick towards the end due to a spring under bottom inside of the holder...nearly lost it came out quick ...
IMG_0448.JPG

Well the crystal holder reminds in of a heath kit scope i once had 90% air space 10% electronics` the crystal is smaller than expected the crystal is 15mm square what is different to todays crystals is its held tight between the plates ..i think it would be good for a jeffree cell due to this the mass holding it does not stop it oscillating ...if its a z cut will not find out till a test ....the liquid drop test would show if it stays in the middle its more than likely that cut .
i ended up putting it back together and tested it and worked fine again i will leave it there till i get around to looking at it again
IMG_0449.JPG

IMG_0450.JPG

Attachments
IMG_0451.JPG
IMG_0452.JPG
IMG_0453.JPG
IMG_0454.JPG
IMG_0457.JPG
IMG_0458.JPG
IMG_0459.JPG
MVI_0455_x264.mp4
(5.28 MiB) Downloaded 221 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:08 pm

I also had a look at what i think i will try on the next cell version swapping to a small glass bottle....keeping the bottom untouched this time ...don't want to be drilling glass more than likely brake it .
I will fill from the top if it works seal with epoxy ..tests can be done vertical just to see if it works .
Attachments
IMG_0462.JPG
IMG_0463.JPG
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Dave Moll » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:42 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:Just post me your address again
No PM here any more


You should be able to email by clicking on the "@" on the profile header.
User avatar
Dave Moll
Just nod and pretend you understand me
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:11 am

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:49 pm

Dave Moll wrote:
Harry Dalek wrote:Just post me your address again
No PM here any more


You should be able to email by clicking on the "@" on the profile header.

Thanks Dave it worked fine ...i have never tried since the PM trouble Andrews site had a while back.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Andrew Davie » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:42 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:Thanks Dave it worked fine ...i have never tried since the PM trouble Andrews site had a while back.



Mmh. Well, technically it's the NBTVA's site and I offered them full control/ownership but got no response.
I'm happy to hand over the reins; I don't want to appear to be taking over. It is a constant disappointment to me that the forum and newsletter don't co-exist rather than being independent entities. Anyway, that's my take on the situation. I don't consider it "mine".
User avatar
Andrew Davie
"Gomez!", "Oh Morticia."
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:00 pm

Andrew Davie wrote:
Harry Dalek wrote:Thanks Dave it worked fine ...i have never tried since the PM trouble Andrews site had a while back.



Mmh. Well, technically it's the NBTVA's site and I offered them full control/ownership but got no response.
I'm happy to hand over the reins; I don't want to appear to be taking over. It is a constant disappointment to me that the forum and newsletter don't co-exist rather than being independent entities. Anyway, that's my take on the situation. I don't consider it "mine".


Yes its very strange Andrew ,you would think they would want it but as they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
I said it was yours as it was your idea to start it and a good idea it was too least i think it was its a story you have not told us of why ! I didn't know your thinking on it's belonging to or plans for the forum just hope it go's on on in the years to come .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Andrew Davie » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:34 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:Yes its very strange Andrew ,you would think they would want it but as they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
I said it was yours as it was your idea to start it and a good idea it was too least i think it was its a story you have not told us of why ! I didn't know your thinking on it's belonging to or plans for the forum just hope it go's on on in the years to come .


It started because I wanted to build a televisor and I hoped that I could get people online to help me out. Since there wasn't a forum for that which seemed relevant, I thought I'd just start documenting the things I found/knew about NBTV and it went from there. A few very knowledgable people signed up and helped me out in my stumbling efforts to learn electronics and build my first televisor - which was shockingly bad, but worked :)

My concern is that the important information contained in the forum is not lost, especially if I disappear. I have made backups available, and shared passwords (I think), but it would be really nice to have some more formal management of data preservation in place.
User avatar
Andrew Davie
"Gomez!", "Oh Morticia."
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:42 pm
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:46 pm

Andrew Davie wrote:
It started because I wanted to build a televisor and I hoped that I could get people online to help me out. Since there wasn't a forum for that which seemed relevant, I thought I'd just start documenting the things I found/knew about NBTV and it went from there. A few very knowledgable people signed up and helped me out in my stumbling efforts to learn electronics and build my first televisor - which was shockingly bad, but worked :)

My concern is that the important information contained in the forum is not lost, especially if I disappear. I have made backups available, and shared passwords (I think), but it would be really nice to have some more formal management of data preservation in place.


Good job too ! there is nothing like it out there, there are other forums not as good as this ..none with this interesting subject !
You did a good job of the first monitor one of the projects i read over to learn ..now you have made worlds best really ~!
Yes i don't want it to be lost as well there are a lot of people who know their subject and passed on the answers to our questions priceless ! i know i would of got no where with out Steve Klaas and Gary's and others advice ,but yes i agree needs to be saved least your safe in Tasmania .. :wink:
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:03 pm

I have been looking into a solid state driver for the PZT piezoelectric ceramic disk using a LTC1799 - 1kHz to 33MHz oscillator used this for the high frequency oscillator .
I have a Chinese Driver for this disk but i want to see if i can also make one and work over other frequencies
download.png
download.png (74.16 KiB) Viewed 3465 times


Problem now is we need a sine wave to drive the disk so ended up using an amplifier similar to this for a clean sine wave ,a few changes working on it a power transistor was needed ,only running the power transistor on 20 volts and the disk is oscillating ,i think they need a touch more voltage my ebay store driver rated at 24 volts,so getting there .
Might work also on the quartz 2 mhz crystal bit of luck, should just have to tune it in the voltage it is much lower with this driver but the wave form is infact a touch better than the valve Harley oscillator .
Once i am more happy with it i draw up a schematic .
Screen 00108.jpg
Screen 00108.jpg (49.2 KiB) Viewed 3465 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:00 pm

First up an enormous thanks to Andrew for that help ! :shock: amazing :mrgreen:
I am going to have to get my finger out and hurry up now .
On this project i looked into the the driver transistor and it seems the size and type was the best choice i just put it on a bigger heat sink and doesn't even get warm
BTW i am only using half that coil ,i wasn't sure what i'd need for 1.7mhz so half that winding seemed in range.
IMG_0464.JPG


Close ....i wasn't really looking at the frequency when adjusting more the vibration effect in the liquid and wave form on the scope

IMG_0471.JPG


Without the disk no load/ its a clean sinewave form over shooting the scope screen with volts div on 5 volts per div....only comes in range with the disk load vibrating you can see vibrations in the waveform....you need some amplitude to get this thing to give visible vibrations in a liquid.
Any one trying this you have the problem of you need the frequency you need the waveform to be sine wave and the amplitude all 3 your on a winner.
Having said this the disk does vibrate at a lower level out of resonance a khz out it has a wider bandwidth this way i think than a Quartz crystal which i recall is much tighter adjustment to do the same thing .

IMG_0468.JPG


Below is the disk with a bit of water on it oscillation is pretty good for 20 volts i don't need it to turn it to steam just vibrate the liquid enough ! this will do the job .


video of the waveform



I next looked in to lamp oil kerosene...getting serious now ~!



I am not sure why its blue ! i was thinking it was the bottle it should be colourless liquid oh well this will do for now .



Next i looked into construction again !
i didn't like the idea of the foam i was thinking i trying last time so went back to cork ..problem how to fit the cork in the bottle ..answer ...cut it in half fit each half .
IMG_0477.JPG

IMG_0478.JPG

IMG_0479.JPG


Next problem is how to put the ceramic disk in and keep the liquid in

IMG_0481.JPG


I was going to use a larger ceramic disk that covers the bottle hole and glue but seemed a bad plan when trying the glue does not stick due to the kero and air bubbles arrrrrr ! but i think i will use the smaller one i have and glue it to the bottom of that cork stopper and that might just work . as you see i haven't done that yet but that's the plan seems a better idea with out doing any thing else to the bottle .


IMG_0487.JPG

IMG_0488.JPG
Attachments
MVI_0467_x264.mp4
(1.92 MiB) Downloaded 179 times
MVI_0476_x264.mp4
(5.09 MiB) Downloaded 193 times
MVI_0484_x264.mp4
(6.97 MiB) Downloaded 190 times
MVI_0485_x264.mp4
(6.18 MiB) Downloaded 191 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

Re: The Jeffree Cell

Postby Harry Dalek » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:44 pm

I put together the big jar cell from the last post i couldn't really notice much effect when powering up the disk ,swapping back to the smaller jar i could see the vibrations in the liquid so did some tests again with that ,well gave a laser test a go to see if i could notice any light change via the smaller jar cell but sort of backwards with the ceramic disk bottom of the jar first 2 videos show you can see light bending via the top of the liquid but looks unchanged where it is beaming across just above the disk ,3rd video the beam defocused hits the screen turning the driver on and off the effect is a slight defocusing so only a slight change in the light levels...


Attachments
MVI_0497_x264.mp4
(14.53 MiB) Downloaded 129 times
MVI_0501_x264.mp4
(8.94 MiB) Downloaded 137 times
MVI_0500_x264.mp4
(16.1 MiB) Downloaded 125 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
User avatar
Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:58 pm
Location: Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Construction Diaries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron