Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

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Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:41 am

gary wrote:
A Merry Christmas to you and yours Harry!

(BTW just so we are on the same page - when I was talking about 44.1kHz I was referring to this file: nosync24thvideotopin2.wav - that was when you injected an NBTV test wave into your system which I thought was a very good idea but it is the original of that file (the one you injected) that needs to be made 48kHz - not the recording.)


Arrrr Boxing day life is easier for an NBTVer today ~ :wink:

Yes what i did and i will double check i got the NBTV video file with all those test cards looked at it in my audio recording program ....it showed me it was at 44khz or so so i converted it to 48khz ...then pl;ayed the file with vlc player and injected it to pin 2 of the first ic of the video sync mixer circuit ......output from camera video output recorded to the second computer it records or saves it at 48khz...is that ok as the recording has to be saved at this or lower or higher khz rate ..i was thinking 48khz seems ok.

Today i will double check all this as i had 2 files with 2 different results so made a mistake ...i will post up the result being a careful this time and see what was right .
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Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby gary » Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:18 pm

As long as it goes *through* the soundcard as 48 kHz (or an integer multiple thereof, eg 24 kHz would be fine).

If you can post the converted file I can check that it has been converted correctly.

Edit: Oh I just thought that if the wave file is off one of the NBTVA disks you had better not post it due to copyright.

Actually the easiest thing to do is use Video2NBTV to create a new one from a image file.
gary
 

Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:33 pm

gary wrote:As long as it goes *through* the soundcard as 48 kHz (or an integer multiple thereof, eg 24 kHz would be fine).

If you can post the converted file I can check that it has been converted correctly.

Edit: Oh I just thought that if the wave file is off one of the NBTVA disks you had better not post it due to copyright.

Actually the easiest thing to do is use Video2NBTV to create a new one from a image file.


I will give that a go Gary ...
when i looked at the file i made with video2nbtv its shows up as 44.1khz i then converted it to 48 thats the first file below then whats coming out of the video sync mixed video output looks ok when i view live but rolls of the newer TBP software ...from this recording
Attachments
48BarsAndTone.wav
(1.35 MiB) Downloaded 279 times
videooutbarsandtone.wav
(1.83 MiB) Downloaded 294 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby gary » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:53 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:.
when i looked at the file i made with video2nbtv its shows up as 44.1khz


No Harry if you are using NBTVA format in Video2NBTV it will create it as 48 kHz.
gary
 

Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby gary » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:06 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:when i looked at the file i made with video2nbtv its shows up as 44.1khz i then converted it to 48 thats the first file below then whats coming out of the video sync mixed video output looks ok when i view live but rolls of the newer TBP software ...from this recording


Sorry Harry I don't think I am following you, you say it looks ok when you view live - using what? old TBP but rolls when you view with new TBP?

What do you mean "from this recording"? Is that the second file? What are you recording it with?
gary
 

Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:51 pm

gary wrote:
Sorry Harry I don't think I am following you, you say it looks ok when you view live - using what? old TBP but rolls when you view with new TBP?

What do you mean "from this recording"? Is that the second file? What are you recording it with?


Thats ok i didn't explain what i was up to clearly

The first file 48BarsAndTone.wav i am playing on one computer sending the output audio to pin 2 of the video sync mixer ic 1 video output from ic2 is sent to the 2nd computer to record via a audio recording program and also view on (TBP the older version ) the recorded file is videooutbarsandtone.wav

When i play back videooutbarsandtone.wav on both versions of TBP it pays fine on the older version but on newer TBP it rolls on when you deselect process sync .

Well apart from that i can see in the video via my circuit the video looks wiggly ....pretty much like the camera gives video gives
Attachments
48barsandtone.jpg
48barsandtone.jpg (2.84 KiB) Viewed 6699 times
videooutbarsabdtone.jpg
videooutbarsabdtone.jpg (4.06 KiB) Viewed 6699 times
videooutbarsandtone.jpg
videooutbarsandtone.jpg (5.81 KiB) Viewed 6699 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby gary » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:50 pm

Harry, that wiggly part is just because you have the sync processing on.

videooutbarsandtone.gif
videooutbarsandtone.gif (882.74 KiB) Viewed 6695 times


Harry, as you can see from the above your recording of the test is somehow varying in speed (or more correctly sample rate) - It starts at the right speed and then slowly speeds up - I can only put it this way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U_R446L7uU

It's very weird and made doubly so by the fact there seems to be a reduced in size ghost image in the video as well.

I can't even begin to imagine how you are managing to get a recording like this, I have never seen anything like it before.

What application are you using to record?

The only other thing I can suggest at the moment is to swap the 2 computers around because the one you are recording on seems defective.

Edit: I suppose it's possible that the play out is speeding up instead of the recording - what application are you using to play out? In any case swapping the computers around might tell us something).
gary
 

Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:56 pm

I wanted to see if the video sync mixer was a touch voltage sensitive so tried see what comes out via the circuit on a 9 volt battery ,a touch cleaner but still have the wiggles happening ,
i also tried inputting the signal via the pot where the preamp from the PMT is normally connected so first file is input via the pot and circuit on 9 VOLT Battery power...second file same video in via the pot but circuit on 12 volt mains power supply .
Attachments
9voltsvideooutbarsandtone.wav
(1.83 MiB) Downloaded 275 times
potvideooutbarsandtone.wav
(1.9 MiB) Downloaded 287 times
9volt.jpg
9volt.jpg (4.45 KiB) Viewed 6695 times
pot.jpg
pot.jpg (5.06 KiB) Viewed 6695 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby gary » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:15 pm

Harry, again the wiggly-ness is because you have the sync processing turned on.

Another test you could do is to send the output of computer 1 directly to computer 2.
gary
 

Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:24 pm

gary wrote:Harry, that wiggly part is just because you have the sync processing on.


Oh ok i have been trying to look into whats up here ....

Harry, as you can see from the above your recording of the test is somehow varying in speed (or more correctly sample rate) - It starts at the right speed and then slowly speeds up - I can only put it this way:


Yes i didn't understand that either why it was starting out correct then off it gos .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U_R446L7uU

Arrrr i laughed WB plot indeed !~ pretty much if it can be stuffed up i will do it :roll:

It's very weird and made doubly so by the fact there seems to be a reduced in size ghost image in the video as well.


mmmm is the video 48khz file i am using feeding the the circuit correct gary ?

I can't even begin to imagine how you are managing to get a recording like this, I have never seen anything like it before.


Well me either ...i will try and work on why is it so again !

What application are you using to record?


Free audio editor .....

The only other thing I can suggest at the moment is to swap the 2 computers around because the one you are recording on seems defective.


i will try that and see ,easy enough

Edit: I suppose it's possible that the play out is speeding up instead of the recording - what application are you using to play out? In any case swapping the computers around might tell us something).
[/quote]

OK i can do both and see if the computers are the problem on the play back or record
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby gary » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:47 pm

Harry Dalek wrote:Oh ok i have been trying to look into whats up here ....


Well I don't think anything is "up", it's just that you are using the old TBP which always uses sync processing. That's why you don't see the image rolling - it's a trade off - you either have rolling or wiggliness if the speed of the video is wrong. I recommend using the new version whenever possible.

Harry Dalek wrote:mmmm is the video 48khz file i am using feeding the the circuit correct gary ?


Well the file you posted is fine - I have checked that - but whether it is fine when it gets to pin 2 of IC1 is another matter, certainly I can't see any reason that the way you are doing it shouldn't work - maybe we are getting some impedance mismatch cause reflections - I wouldn't worry about it at this stage, the speed variation is much more critical.

Harry Dalek wrote:Free audio editor .....


LOL - NOT very helpful Harry ha ha, the reason I ask is that there may be some "effects processing" going on that you haven't realised is switched on - many editors have that ability. If you tell me which one it is I can have a quick look.

In fact the sound management on the computer can also introduce things like echo reverb, pitch change etc - so that should be checked too!

Harry Dalek wrote:OK i can do both and see if the computers are the problem on the play back or record


You can play out AND record on the same computer at the same time as well. Oh! and that reminds me - when you are recording just make sure you are using the "Line In" source NOT "stereo mix" (or "What you hear").
gary
 

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:45 pm

gary wrote:LOL - NOT very helpful Harry ha ha, the reason I ask is that there may be some "effects processing" going on that you haven't realised is switched on - many editors have that ability. If you tell me which one it is I can have a quick look.


No thats thats the name of the software Gary !
Free audio editor
https://free-audio-editor-1.en.softonic.com/

In fact the sound management on the computer can also introduce things like echo reverb, pitch change etc - so that should be checked too!


Reason i have not done the last test we talked about i ended up having windows problems with the audio jacks and had to reload windows on the recording computer ...just before i did this i looked at what rate the computer sound card was set at ...the recording computer was 48khz dvd quality but the play back computer was set on 44.1khz so i think if it was playing back even a converted to 48khz wav it would come out at that ....i will try and test it tomorrow after work see if this setting now fixes the problem ...well if my audio sound input jack works again !

My settings are on no effect for that side of things


You can play out AND record on the same computer at the same time as well. Oh! and that reminds me - when you are recording just make sure you are using the "Line In" source NOT "stereo mix" (or "What you hear").
[/quote]

OH thats some thing i have never tried !....mine only has mono input for sound stereo made from one channel
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re:

Postby gary » Tue Dec 27, 2016 10:36 am

Harry Dalek wrote:No thats thats the name of the software Gary !
Free audio editor
https://free-audio-editor-1.en.softonic.com/


LOL Sorry Harry, that possibility DID actually occur to me but a quick search on Google turned up... well I think you can guess...

Harry Dalek wrote:Reason i have not done the last test we talked about i ended up having windows problems with the audio jacks and had to reload windows on the recording computer ...just before i did this i looked at what rate the computer sound card was set at ...the recording computer was 48khz dvd quality but the play back computer was set on 44.1khz so i think if it was playing back even a converted to 48khz wav it would come out at that ....i will try and test it tomorrow after work see if this setting now fixes the problem ...well if my audio sound input jack works again !


That's possible, although it doesn't explain why it's starting off correctly but then speeding up - just like it was coming from the camera! Totally weird.

Harry, you might want to try the following application:

NBTV.zip
(255.76 KiB) Downloaded 290 times


This allows to to both play and record NBTV files.
Just make sure your soundcard DEFAULT input and outputs are set to the correct input and outputs.

This one also allows you to use the mouse to drag the picture around in the display to quickly frame it.

To record simply press the red button (acquire) and when finished stop and save the file.
gary
 

Re: Re:

Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:27 pm

gary wrote:
That's possible, although it doesn't explain why it's starting off correctly but then speeding up - just like it was coming from the camera! Totally weird.


Yes i forgot about that little conundrum !

Harry, you might want to try the following application:

NBTV.zip


This allows to to both play and record NBTV files.
Just make sure your soundcard DEFAULT input and outputs are set to the correct input and outputs.


Thanks there Gary i tried a play of a nbtv file that works fine ,thats a handy little bit of software ...i will have a play around with it tonight .

This one also allows you to use the mouse to drag the picture around in the display to quickly frame it.


Yes that works too...i like this !

To record simply press the red button (acquire) and when finished stop and save the file.


That saves me using an audio recoding program ...i see what you mean about just needing one computer to do it all ...i think i have to change my procedure thanks to your software creation i like it Gary ~Thanks !

Some thing i didn't think of that may be a cleaner record from the camera perhaps to weak to use ? would be record the preamp output ...before it gos to the video sync mixer should be at least cleaner sync less video ....i will have to work on that .
So far from your advice the video sync mixer is ok i can see i can clean up the DC perhaps as the battery showed a difference ....still got the Nipkow to redo and lens system ...which i would like to get right ...also get around to testing on the inverter as its voltage is variable which will help on the PMT side .
Look into the recording side of your software after tea tonight .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: Photomultiplier Tubes camera build

Postby Harry Dalek » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:53 pm

HI Gary

I have been testing the play back and record of your software

What i am doing is using one NBTV file you just sent playing back the video on one window and record on another/

I have a stereo plug cable one in the headphone jack other in the mic feeding back the video sound back into the mic for the recording ..this one does not have a line input ..one i have been using on past recordings last few posts does have a line input ...but just working things out on the laptop i use for web searching and forum and such so if its the mic jack thats the problem thats OK i can go to the other computer just testing here .

I looked at these on TBP least its not rolling ! :roll: any idea why the delayed video ? the cable perhaps ? ...thinking about it the speaker is stereo and the mic is mono so perhaps something up there mmm
Attachments
nbtvghost.wav
(2.97 MiB) Downloaded 259 times
nbtvghost2.wav
(2.97 MiB) Downloaded 288 times
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
"Fester! Don't do that to 'Thing'"
 
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