multi system frame syncing

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multi system frame syncing

Postby Harry Dalek » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:11 pm

Last time i looked into what this monitor could do i really didn't touch on the framing side of the circuit as it tended to sync but a few years in a box testing it again on any thing other than 32 line i found this wasn't repeating the old results ,the main problem here seemed to be R622 ageing perhaps the resistors value has changed a touch or more likely capacitor C622 any case placing a 500k pot in parallel to over the R622 resistance did the trick .
circuits.jpg

3BP1 NBTV Sawtooth 3.gif


Also replaced C721 with a 3 position switch now switching in C721 68NF 23NF 10NF caps and R704 18k a 25k pot over this resistor helps adjust video height
The attachment circuits.jpg is no longer available



Framing as is unchanged here at 12.5hz frame rate framing works from 23 line onwards each image 1 line more tested up to 100 line but not its top limit ,showing here the bandwidth loss comes in on the higher end ...i suppose what i can output from the sound card more than likely more of a problem than the opto coupler
So every thing looks ok up to the 70s but loss sure kicks in after ,hard to get every photo right but there's enough to show the problem with trying out a higher line rate without anything that can output the correct video bandwidth to the monitor .
anigif.gif
anigif.gif (11.52 MiB) Viewed 3652 times


Below image 23 line that is the start of what it can correctly lock in frame ,i will test some more when i can, i found it will not frame 25 or 50 hz or any thing above 12.5 hz ...need more work but not impossible ...
Here its not a problem as i just need this monitor for the lower end of what it can do .
P1070703.JPG
Last edited by Harry Dalek on Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: multi system frame syncing

Postby Steve Anderson » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:33 pm

I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to do here...and I'm surprised you're able to get these circuits working on all these different rates. They were (I think) meant for one particular standard, but if they work with others, that's a bonus!

It should be possible to concoct a device that will detect the missing pulse on many and various standards. It may only need to be told how many lines there should be...maybe...thinking a moment...I'll come back to this...an interesting challenge...

...it shouldn't be that hard...maybe...and an interesting diversion...though maybe I have enough already!

Queued up already are 1) SSTV-VGA up-converter, [Work in progress] 2) Updated 'ROMscanner', [In design phase] 3) Perhaps this [In conceptual stage]...but it's all my own fault!!

The good news is...they're getting simpler as time goes on...I tend to switch between one and another...as the mood takes me...I hit an impasse on one and divert to another, then come back to the original with a (perhaps) fresh mind...

Steve A.
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Re: multi system frame syncing

Postby smeezekitty » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:36 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:It should be possible to concoct a device that will detect the missing pulse on many and various standards. It may only need to be told how many lines there should be...maybe...thinking a moment...I'll come back to this...an interesting challenge...

...it shouldn't be that hard...maybe...and an interesting diversion...though maybe I have enough already!

Its definitely possible. I do it with a microcontroller in my mechanical TV since it only has frame sync (no line sync). But it can no doubt be done with discrete logic as well.
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Re: multi system frame syncing

Postby Harry Dalek » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:02 pm

Steve Anderson wrote:I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to do here...and I'm surprised you're able to get these circuits working on all these different rates. They were (I think) meant for one particular standard, but if they work with others, that's a bonus!


What i was showing was first 23 line 24 line 25 line 26 line so up to 100 line i could of went further but showing how the bandwidth drops the image definition and Yes at 12.5 framing 23 line to 100 line it has no problem into the 100s lines framing syncing line syncing ...you did well Steve ...only a little minor adjustment add on to your circuit even i can work out so it is minor ! :roll:

It should be possible to concoct a device that will detect the missing pulse on many and various standards. It may only need to be told how many lines there should be...maybe...thinking a moment...I'll come back to this...an interesting challenge...


I think its possible it seems ok with a lower framing rate missing pulse as is i tried a 5 and 6 frames a sec video and it worked but say 13 or 14 or 25 nope it can't do that yet i think i would need to also speed up the framing saw tooth oscillator and switch in another capacitor or 2 other than 1uf as is at the moment for 12.5 hz at teh moment it can't go to higher in frequency is my guess .

...it shouldn't be that hard...maybe...and an interesting diversion...though maybe I have enough already!


I don't really need it at the moment but as above mentioned if its just switching in another capacitor or 2 for say a 25 frame a sec video or 50 why not ...i am off later in the week i will try and show how it go's

Queued up already are 1) SSTV-VGA up-converter, [Work in progress] 2) Updated 'ROMscanner', [In design phase] 3) Perhaps this [In conceptual stage]...but it's all my own fault!!


Thats ok Steve as i also said one road leads to another can be endless i started on the phonoVision now i am on a CRT again where you need one thing to test the other !
Just on them all in bits something will get finished is my philosophy !

The good news is...they're getting simpler as time goes on...I tend to switch between one and another...as the mood takes me...I hit an impasse on one and divert to another, then come back to the original with a (perhaps) fresh mind...

Steve A.


Well that's a good thing complex to less complex is the way to go ...for me i am fine waiting to see how yours up converter go's ,i know you need to swap and enjoy your hobby and do other stuff to .
The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: multi system frame syncing

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:15 pm

Today i looked into a frame increase and syncing to 25hz and 50hz pretty much means changing the value of C702 from 1uf to a 150Nf for 50hz that value was pretty much spot on , results were good on syncing bit harder than 12.5hz but video wise Bandwidth loss even at 32 line didn't really impress me i would rather a lower frame rate unless i had some thing of the correct bandwidth to feed these new frame rates .
3BP1 NBTV Sawtooth 3.gif

Now i have looked into this i have gone the other direction a low frame rate and higher line rate pretty much to the maximum i could try using freeNBTV to try this out
2 frames a sec and 240 lines and guess what ......it frames as well bonus ! C702 changed to 5.6uf
DSCN7210.JPG


Now here we are starting to get in the realms of a slightly faster SSTV here as in display time and resolution video below ..Cross between NBTV and SSTV it displays well on the little crt ,i am not sure how it would go if i did have a higher bandwidth video and speeding all this up but the little CRT can sure handle a tiny Raster spot at these speeds ! i even forgot to focus again to tweak it .

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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Re: multi system frame syncing

Postby Harry Dalek » Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:39 pm

68 Line 12.5 frames a sec video below i finished off the panel controls today .
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The electromagnetic spectrum has no theoretical limit at either end. If all the mass/energy in the Universe is considered a 'limit', then that would be the only real theoretical limit to the maximum frequency attainable.
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Harry Dalek
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